Wild Monitor

Great pics of a stunning Lacie, the only thing that would concern me about it being so brave to accept food would be if a small child was to try and feed it in the same way. But then again any responsible parent would not allow their kids to do this so i say go for it. Just keep ya digits attached.

Its my fingers and toes and as i said it was a very relaxed monitor. If he had looked agressive at all i would not have let him get that close. Each to there own but i am a firm believer in being very quiet and non threatning to animals and they will repay the favour. Have not had aproblem with any animals in 40 years so there must be something to it. As to their diet and scabing of people thats there choice and it certainly doesnt look like its effected there heal at all

I agree that what you do with your own fingers and toes is your business, but the main reason not to feed wild monitors is that it encourages them to seek food from other people as well and eventually someone gets bitten, after which the rangers are forced to relocate the animal. This has happened with some of the lace monitors in a picnic area I frequent.

r3ptilian said:

the only thing that would concern me about it being so brave to accept food would be if a small child was to try and feed it in the same way.

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That's a very legitimate concern, as most members of the general public are unaware of the teeth these animals have or the feeding response, so even normally responsible parents might allow their children to do this out of ignorance. A lot of people assume that because an animal is in a picnic area in a national park it must be somehow tame and safe. On a couple of occasions I've had to warn people not to let their children hand feed lace monitors.

Very impressive Lacie.

Would love to have such a close encounter with one who seems so relaxed around people.

I don't think I'd try hand feeding such a big reptile but I would toss it some food treats that it can eat from a safe distance..

Pretty sure if it frequented the campground or picnic bbq area and was agressive that the park rangers would relocate it.

Whilst I think they are great pics. It's not a good idea to feed any wild animal. It cause alot of issues regarding food and humans. Whilst it looks placid they can change very quickly. They are very quick when they want to be. Their teeth/claws don't give second chances.
Not something I would recommend. Let's all go juggle chainsaws. Good in theory not in practice.

ianinoz said:

I would toss it some food treats that it can eat from a safe distance..

Pretty sure if it frequented the campground or picnic bbq area and was agressive that the park rangers would relocate it.

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Um, yeah, and how do you suppose they become 'aggressive'... because people are tossing it food. It doesn't benefit anyone when they get relocated, especially not the animal, for it will either get plonked into an unsuitable area (and either starve or get hit by a car crossing roads while trying to find its way back) or will be in direct competition with the monitors already living there. I've been photographing the lace monitors in a nearby national park for 11 years and can say without a doubt that the population of adult monitors is very stable. I've got photographs of the same animals over that 11 year period and most of them were full-sized adults at the start of that period. One of these animals was an old looking adult 11 years ago and hasn't changed, so given that it takes around 10 years to get its size in the wild and another five to ten years before it would start to look aged in any way, that puts it at least 25-30 years old. Moving that animal into an entirely new environment would likely be disastrous for it.

This isn't the same as you feeding your little water skink.

crocdoc said:

This isn't the same as you feeding your little water skink.

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Maybe its exactly the same

Off topic a bit, but I forgot to mention:

Fuscus said:

... a "semi-bells" ...

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That's a pure Bell's phase. The colours don't blend with the normal phase, so they're always either one or the other (i.e. they're all pure Bell's phase or normal phase). Some Bell's phase have broad black bands and in others the black bands are split by a narrow yellow band (as in your photograph), but they're still Bell's phase and will produce Bell's phase offspring if mated with a normal (or a mixture of some Bell's phase babies and some normal phase babies, if the parent Bell's phase is heterozygous for Bell's phase).

grimbeny said:

Maybe its exactly the same

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Ya think? Ever hear of a water skink being relocated by rangers because it bit a member of the public after being fed regularly by picnickers?

after which the rangers are forced to relocate the animal.

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Depending on the bite it is less likely to be relocated and more likely to be put down, this is often seen as the easier option. The reasons you say it would be devastating for a lacie to be relocated also come into play as a reason to do this. I personally don't think it's right and I actually haven't heard of a case with a lacie, but it has happened with Kookaburras that have injured people when stealing their bbq so it's not to much of a stretch to be applied here.

So before you go feeding your new placid friend that might turn around and kill you, remember it's not just your fingers and toes, it's his. Oh nice pics by the way.

I'll be regarded as a spoiler too... Lace Monitors are very significant predators/carrion eaters in the Australian bush, they'll eat anything they can swallow, and tear up anything that's too big to swallow in one piece. Lacies habituated to people as this one is are potentially very dangerous indeed when in full feeding mode. The bolder they get, the bigger risk they pose to anyone who is handling food in the area - a small child with a sausage from the barbie could easily be a prime target and suffer serious injury as a consequence.

They are grand animals, but NEVER be casual about them, especially at feeding time. Some handlers of so-called tame Lacies have suffered horrific injuries because they become casual about them. These animals are not malicious, but they have a ferocious feeding response, and when they switch into that mode, only a fool would mess with them.

I certainly wouldn't be feeding a large (or even a small) Lace Monitor so close to my feet. It's asking for trouble.

Jamie

Pythoninfinite said:

Some handlers of so-called tame Lacies have suffered horrific injuries because they become casual about them. These animals are not malicious, but they have a ferocious feeding response, and when they switch into that mode, only a fool would mess with them.

I certainly wouldn't be feeding a large (or even a small) Lace Monitor so close to my feet. It's asking for trouble.

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In my experience, the tame captives are worse than the wild ones because they don't have that element of caution holding them back. I'd never feed my very 'tame' adult male lacie with my hands, or thong-clad feet, so close to the food as in the images at the beginning of this thread because once he starts eating he switches into 'food brain' mode and all bets are off. Anything moves and it's a goner. Fredsnugget, I can fully understand why you got enjoyment out of feeding that monitor. They're spectacular animals and it's always exciting to have one interact, but in the end always be mindful of what's best for the animal, long term. Having seen what they are capable of doing, I wouldn't trust them to 'repay the favour' no matter how quiet and non-threatening you may be, either. That works with snakes and other animals likely to bite one out of fear and self defence, but the feeding response of an adult lace monitor takes no prisoners once it gets going.

One more thing:

fredsnugget said:

As to their diet and scabing of people thats there choice and it certainly doesnt look like its effected there heal at all

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Unfortunately, it's not their choice. We're the thinking animal here, whereas they're responding to instincts honed over millions of years which did not include handouts from humans. Although you may be feeding the monitors something that isn't harmful, once they realise that humans = food, they often end up eating things that are extremely unhealthy. I once saw a lace monitor swallowing aluminium foil because it smelled like barbecued meat. Its instincts told it that anything that smells like meat is edible, but the instincts don't take into account man-made things like aluminium foil. I ran towards it but it had already downed it before I got there.

That may have been what happened to this monitor. This is one of the wild lacies I've seen a number of times over the years. It used to be a beautiful, robust adult lace monitor, as in this photo from a couple of years ago:

This is how it looked the last time I saw it, right at the end of last summer. Compare the patterns and you'll see it's the same individual. It should have been fat and healthy, ready to go into winter, but it was all skin and bones.

It's bad for a monitor to into winter looking like that and its chances of survival are thin. I would put money on it that it got like that through eating the wrong things and probably having an intestinal blockage.

My apologies if all of this sounds like a lecture - as I said, I do understand the desire to interact with the wild monitors, but just be mindful of where it might lead.

I imagine you've all seen this before, but this video (not mine) shows how geed up monitors can get over food.
[video=youtube;F0nkBNicJZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0nkBNicJZM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

Fuscus said:

Last time I fed a wild lacie ( a "semi-bells" pictured below) it decided I didn't feed it enough and went for my bare feet. To cut a long story short I ended up pinning it down with a tripod while putting my boots on, after which it hung around camp and scared off other campers

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What's a semi bells? It is either a bells or not, like an albino.

Also i'm against feeding wild laceys, what happens if they come up to a small kid or baby with food, and take a chomp - there won't be any fingers left of them.

Also I've seen a lacey die on fraser island from eating a plastic bag, because they were comfortable enough to come around humans, it's not a good thing.

grimbeny said:

Maybe its exactly the same

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Lizzy benefits, and I do too.

Now back to the monitor. How do you think wild dogs came to become friendly to humans ?

I'd be willing to bet this monitor regularly raids any rubbish bins in that picnic / bbq area , being a scavenger by inclination .

I'd rather toss it a few snags or slices of cut meat and take the opportunity to watch / photograph it eating from a safe distance. It would be prudent to have long solid stick handy in case the lizard become "too insistant" on more yummy stuff.

If there are children around then it's up to the parents to tell the children to stay away from the big lizard and control the kids while they are eating. Sorry but this is just common sense. Little kids don't know big lizards bite and don't know that grabbing a big wild lizard can be hazardous. Hell even a little lizard like Lizzy can do some damage if it's grabbed and gets a chance to latch onto soft fingers and the soft fresh between the thumb and fingers.

I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously and making a bigger issue out of this than it warants.

Be thankful that such a magnificient lizard lives in that park.

ianinoz said:

I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously and making a bigger issue out of this than it warants.

Be thankful that such a magnificient lizard lives in that park.

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i think you may find the pepole who are making negative comments are the ones who have had experiance with lacies.
really we could keep going around in circles , theres little point in doing so .

JAS101 said:

i think you may find the pepole who are making negative comments are the ones who have had experiance with lacies.

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Maybe , or maybe they are just self appointed experts.

Some serious over-reactions in this thread.

ianinoz said:

Lizzy benefits, and I do too.

Now back to the monitor. How do you think wild dogs came to become friendly to humans ?

I'd be willing to bet this monitor regularly raids any rubbish bins in that picnic / bbq area , being a scavenger by inclination .

I'd rather toss it a few snags or slices of cut meat and take the opportunity to watch / photograph it eating from a safe distance. It would be prudent to have long solid stick handy in case the lizard become "too insistant" on more yummy stuff.

If there are children around then it's up to the parents to tell the children to stay away from the big lizard and control the kids while they are eating. Sorry but this is just common sense. Little kids don't know big lizards bite and don't know that grabbing a big wild lizard can be hazardous. Hell even a little lizard like Lizzy can do some damage if it's grabbed and gets a chance to latch onto soft fingers and the soft fresh between the thumb and fingers.

I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously and making a bigger issue out of this than it warants.

Be thankful that such a magnificient lizard lives in that park.

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As has been stated earlier, yes, they will become habituated to humans and equate humans with food. At this point, they can and will pursue food aggressively. Someone will lose flesh and the lacie will lose it's life. So much for the "magnificent lizard living in that park."

No way am i going to argue with crocdoc about lacies, That was an awesome vid you showed david , it showed the unpredictability and speed.
They are very fast, I remember watching some captives sandies attack their owner at feeding time a few years ago.
That could have gotten ugly but fortunatly they just grabbed his loose clothes and he got out of it without a bite...that time.
As far as feeding wild animals go, i have to agree that is not a great idea, and im sure fred has learned a few things from this thread aswell.

Wow ianinoz, I love that you are comparing a little EWS to an adult lacey.

If there are children around then it's up to the parents to tell the children to stay away from the big lizard and control the kids while they are eating. Sorry but this is just common sense. Little kids don't know big lizards bite and don't know that grabbing a big wild lizard can be hazardous. Hell even a little lizard like Lizzy can do some damage if it's grabbed and gets a chance to latch onto soft fingers and the soft fresh between the thumb and fingers.

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You think that if children are sitting next to their parents and have food, that a lacey won't still approach them? Especially if there is another family or individual who is either still there or just left that was feeding them?? Think again...

I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously and making a bigger issue out of this than it warants.

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Thinking this isn't a big issue and saying that experienced and professional keepers are "taking themselves way too seriously" shows your inexperience. As mentioned, whilst it's a great and fascinating moment having a wild lace monitor (or any wild animal) take food from your hands and come up-close and personal, people need to be warned of the dangers of doing such a thing. Which is simply what the more experienced keepers are doing.

Be thankful that such a magnificient lizard lives in that park.

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The point David (crocdoc) and others are trying to make, is that by us humans feeding these magnificent lizards is not helping anyone. Either a human is going to get hurt or the lizard(s) will get relocated. Who'll be thankful then..?

And please, PLEASE stop comparing everything to the EWS living in your backyard. Pretty sure you've compared it to humans, cats, dogs and now a lacey. It's getting old...

ianinoz said:

Maybe , or maybe they are just self appointed experts.

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If you're referring to people like Jamie and David (sorry Jas I don't know your reputation as well), there's no self appointing going on. They are experts.

It's a shame this had to turn into a fight. I think they're lovely pics of one of my favourite animals. People should have accepted that it shouldn't really have been done and moved on. In my opinion it's like speeding - you know it's dangerous but you still do it. There's no point arguing that it isn't wrong because it is, it's a fact but we all do silly things every once in a while (either through ignorance or apathy).

It's a good point not to feed wild animals for their wellbeing as much as our fingers and toes safety, and I mean how many signs do you see around parks and nature reserves saying 'Please don't feed the wildlife'? But the OP was simply showing everyone a few photos of something he found special, it's a good idea to warn everyone of the consequences of such actions and having seen it firsthand I'm sure it makes you professional keepers all the more worried for their safety, but why can't we take it as it is and appreciate the fact that someone had a wonderful experience, you guys have warned us all about feeding wild lacies, he and all of us will know not to do it again and at the end of the day nobody was hurt?

Don't feed the wildlife (or at least don't show the evidence) enjoy nature from a distance, and everyone will be happy.
No more arguments please, this is just how it seems to me