Measuring temperature under infrared heat

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frostex

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Measuring temperature under infrared heat that's wildly different!

So my 10 month old Diamond python tank (approx 600mm x 600mm x 600mm) uses 1 infrared heat globe for heat, and i'm getting wildly different temperatures on my thermometers, which I believe is cause by infrared heat heating objects as opposed to heating the air.

ive got my thermostat + 1 thermometer probe about 200mm away from the heat but in the "shade" (just slightly out of Line of sight of globe), that agree it is 30C
Ive got another thermometer probe about 50mm to the left of the thermostat, still about 200mm from the heat but in direct line of sight which says 35-36C.
1 more on the floor when in "shade" about 700mm from heat shows 25C.
and 1 more on the floor in direct line of sight which shows about 28ish.

My thermostat is a dimmer, not an on/off switch.
I have tried all thermometer probes in all different locations, and they all agree about each specific location, so there is no faulty equipment.
When i use a meat thermometer instead of a digital probe, it always agrees with the "shade" temp instead of the temp in line of sight.
Turning the heat source off and leaving for a bit, they will all agree on the temp.
Im going to go buy a infrared thermometer gun and see what it says tomorrow.



So the big question, should I set my thermostat to direct temp, or air temp? because there is a huge difference between 30 and 36?
Does anybody have any other comments/suggestions?
 
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Temps should be around 32-33 at the hot end and low to mid 20's for the cool.
Your better off with a lower ambient temp, switch globes to a spot globe ($3) with a branch positioned under it, so that the temp of the branch reads 32-33 leaving the bottom of the enclosure as a cool retreat. Probably the easiest/cheapest solution.

cheers.
 
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If it is a Diamond python do not offer heat over 30 degrees in the hottest location if you want it to live a long healthy life.

- - - Updated - - -

.......and if using an infra-red temp gun, make sure you understand how it works and use it as such. I have a lot of experience with these devices and it is very easy to get an incorrect reading if you don't understand and use them properly. Many people think they are 'point and shoot' which they are to an extent....but the cone of measurement increases significantly with distance from the object. As they average the surface temp within the measurement area, it is easy to get an incorrect reading from the surrounding area when you think it is only measuring where the laser pointer is shining. The pointer is only the 'centre' of the measurement area. When used correctly, they are very accurate and easy to use.
 
I've always offered a basking spot of 32 to diamonds in the past and never had a problem. I've found with all the snakes (and reptiles in general) I've kept, that when given a hot and cool end, they'll choose a location in the enclosure that suits there temperature requirements. It's when no cool end is offered (to cool and the reptile will virtually never leave the warmer end) that you will have problems.

cheers.
 
I would be surprised if you could achieve a sufficient thermal gradient in a 600mm cube tank if you have a 32C basking spot, partularly using radiant heat scorces which heat the air on the way down. Diamonds need cooler temperatures or they "burn out". I would aim for a hot spot of 28/29C and then only for a limited time each day. In a relatively small tank it is difficult to provide a heat gradient using radiant heat scources. Heat mats or cord are far easier to control!
 
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Although I agree with you when it comes to the ease of temperature control using mats and cords, and the difficulty of correct heating using globes in certain situations, considering the room in which my reptiles are kept is temperature controlled, I can easily attain thermal gradients in my enclosures.

It all comes down to the wattage globe used and the positioning of vents for airflow. As most glass enclosures already have a vent both at the bottom and top (as well as through the glass doors) it's just as easy to control the temperature inside with the correct wattage globe.

cheers.
 
Whoops so I just realised i wrote "heater" instead of "thermometer probe" in the original post, it should make more sense now. And there is a very good gradient in there, usually about a 5-7C difference between the floor on the cool end, and highish up on the hot end (basking area).

The main thing that is concerning me is with 2 probs 50mm apart, but still both right under the heat lamp, as soon as i put one in the "shade" by putting a leaf or something over it it drops ~5 degrees, which i believe is a characteristic of infrared radiation? so I believe one is measuring the air temp and the other measuring the direct radiation temp. Currently my thermostat is right at the level of the basking spot set to 30.5C and is half in the "shade" and half in direct radiation sight. Should I keep it there, or should i move it over 15mm so it is fully under the light with no obstructions (where it jumps up 3-5C)?
 
I've always offered a basking spot of 32 to diamonds in the past and never had a problem. I've found with all the snakes (and reptiles in general) I've kept, that when given a hot and cool end, they'll choose a location in the enclosure that suits there temperature requirements. It's when no cool end is offered (to cool and the reptile will virtually never leave the warmer end) that you will have problems.

cheers.

There is much evidence to suggest this is not a good practice these days in terms of DPS - There are people with extensive Diamond experience on here that have previously advocated against it and provided the background to support their view. I am no expert, only advocating their advice given their experience and their explanation. If they are still around they may pop in and repeat their findings and reasonings...or you may want to use the search function.

The issues that arise are long term.....and the most likely and probable reason why these people are able to keep multiple Diamonds for 20+ years while others are finding them affected by DPS in 8-12 years. I will never offer a Diamond any area of their enclosure at a higher temp than 30 degrees......and as Wokka indicated, for a much shorter day period each day than what other reptiles would ordinarily be given. They simply don't need it and the evidence from those with extensive experience with Diamonds suggests it reduces lifespan.

Take their advice or leave it......
 
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There is much evidence to suggest this is not a good practice these days in terms of DPS - There are people with extensive Diamond experience on here that have previously advocated against it and provided the background to support their view. I am no expert, only advocating their advice given their experience and their explanation. If they are still around they may pop in and repeat their findings and reasonings...or you may want to use the search function.

The issues that arise are long term.....and the most likely and probable reason why these people are able to keep multiple Diamonds for 20+ years while others are finding them affected by DPS in 8-12 years. I will never offer a Diamond any area of their enclosure at a higher temp than 30 degrees......and as Wokka indicated, for a much shorter day period each day than what other reptiles would ordinarily be given. They simply don't need it and the evidence from those with extensive experience with Diamonds suggests it reduces lifespan.

Take their advice or leave it......


Pretty much the more reputable the source, the more they advocate what you said. So that's what im basing my temps on :) although its currently summer, so ive got it set for 11 hours a day (i drop it to a 26-23 gradient at night, is that still too high?). But ill reduce that every few months to about 6-7 hours in winter I think.
 
Don't get too obsessed with the cool end temps......As long as you are maintaining a few degrees difference between warm end and cold end when the heater is on there will be no issues. Vertically oriented enclosures make this a lot easier to achieve, as does using the smallest wattage heating device that you can adequately use to maintain your temps, as more powerful heaters despite being thermostatically controlled tend to create a lot of residual heating. (I have a Diamond whose winter basking site is maintained 4w LED....I kid you not!).

Personally, I would drop back to around a max of 8 hours heating (no greater than 30 degrees) in summer, and 4 or so hours (to around 28 degrees) fro winter cooling which is highly recommended for Diamonds. I run a similar regime except my winter temp is much slower coming up to temp....it takes about 5 hours for the basking site to slowly reach 28 degrees so I run heating for around 7 hours in winter.....but max temp is only achieved during the last 2 hrs of this time period. It gives him a more realistic winter regime but can be tricky to set up unless you have a bit of experience with playing around with different wattages and heating types.

Outside the 'heating' periods I provide no heating at all. During winter my indoor enclosures can drop to 12-14 degrees.....this doesn't concern me as long as they are getting access to suitable warmth for a period every 24 hrs.

HTH.
 
I am wondering what to do with my terranium, it's a large reptile one branded one which is quite tall. My house sits at around 28degrees during the day and drops to around 24 at night. Does this mean I will not need a heat lamp during summer month for my diamond python? Just got her she is 4years old.
 
I just wouldn't use heat lamps/lights/bulbs etc with nocturnal pythons period. Lamps are most beneficial to diurnal basking reptiles like lizards and turtles where the lamp is used to replicate the sun. You'll quite often see nocturnal pythons laying on a bitumen road after dusk, this is how they thermoregulate their body temp. I see this a lot travelling through the Sunshine Coast hinterland at night. Create a basking area by using a heat cord and a few tiles and don't even worry about the lamps at all.
 
I just wouldn't use heat lamps/lights/bulbs etc with nocturnal pythons period. Lamps are most beneficial to diurnal basking reptiles like lizards and turtles where the lamp is used to replicate the sun. You'll quite often see nocturnal pythons laying on a bitumen road after dusk, this is how they thermoregulate their body temp. I see this a lot travelling through the Sunshine Coast hinterland at night. Create a basking area by using a heat cord and a few tiles and don't even worry about the lamps at all.
This isn't exactly correct. You may see them laying on roads at night to gain some extra heat, but they also bask during daylight hours somewhere out of sight. So heat lamps etc. do have a part to play in nocturnal animals lives.
 
This isn't exactly correct. You may see them laying on roads at night to gain some extra heat, but they also bask during daylight hours somewhere out of sight. So heat lamps etc. do have a part to play in nocturnal animals lives.
I would say they're receiving dappled sunlight in a shaded position in the daylight hours more for the UVB benefits rather than the warmth. You could always Get away using mats or cords solely for heat without ever using a heat lamp. You could use an optional 2.0 - 5.0 UVB emitting lamp which emits minimal heat within the enclosure during the daylight hours.
 
I have seen many pythons basking in the full sun. There still isn't any conclusive evidence that pythons require UV, so this tells me that they are doing this for the warmth and not for the UV benefits. Blackheaded pythons for example will sit in a tree trunk with just their head sticking out to absorb heat and warm up for the night hunt.
 
I'm of the opinion that all reptiles, diurnal and nocturnal require UVB. It's just that the requirements are a lot different for each individual species. My turtles get taken outside for half an hour, 7 days/week whereas my pythons get 5-10 mins 1-2 days a week.
Back to the point, using heat emitting lamps inside a snake's enclosure isn't as easily controlled or regulated as using a simple warm spot created by a cord or mat.
 
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I just wouldn't use heat lamps/lights/bulbs etc with nocturnal pythons period. Lamps are most beneficial to diurnal basking reptiles like lizards and turtles where the lamp is used to replicate the sun. You'll quite often see nocturnal pythons laying on a bitumen road after dusk, this is how they thermoregulate their body temp. I see this a lot travelling through the Sunshine Coast hinterland at night. Create a basking area by using a heat cord and a few tiles and don't even worry about the lamps at all.
Yup. We used to get 8ft carpets on our road in Mooloolah all the time. Unfortunately they get hit a lot too because of the dips and corners in the roads up there.
 
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