Breeding question (whats the outcome)... Question about jags too

I put my male JCP with my female proserpine coastal x high yellow diamond. Obviously the outcome isn't going to be a pure breed. I was just wondering what the outcome would turn out like? Does it have a name? or what would you call the hatchies? .. jungle x coastal x diamond? or what?

Also, im having trouble understanding Jags. I have read up on, and half understand percentages eg. 75% jungle jag etc. ... But im also wondering how jags become jags in the first place?.. is it just a different looking off spring from a breed. Im guessing there is more to it than that.

Your answers are greatly appreciated! THANKS

dhpirate said:

I put my male JCP with my female proserpine coastal x high yellow diamond. Obviously the outcome isn't going to be a pure breed. I was just wondering what the outcome would turn out like? Does it have a name? or what would you call the hatchies? .. jungle x coastal x diamond? or what?

Also, im having trouble understanding Jags. I have read up on, and half understand percentages eg. 75% jungle jag etc. ... But im also wondering how jags become jags in the first place?.. is it just a different looking off spring from a breed. Im guessing there is more to it than that.

Your answers are greatly appreciated! THANKS

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It does have a name - "more crap crossbreeds on the market." I don't think the thought of responsible breeding has crossed your mind...

Jamie

From what I have researched jags are a morph of pure bred coastals. However it's extremely debatable that any of the jags that made it here were pure and only a few (dodgy) people would truly know either.ALL jag offspring will have some sort of neurological problem at some stage in there life and if it was me I would steer well clear. In saying that some (a lot ) of people find it acceptable to have a snake with neuro problems because they have nice colours and markings. Not having a go at jag keepers to each there own.

As far as I understand the Jag gene only occurs naturally in coastal carpets pythons, so any other Jag, will have some portion crossed with coastal. It is a co-dominant gene. In the case of one Jag parent you will have 25% Jag, 75% normal. With two Jag parents you will have 50% Jag offspring, then 25% normal and 25% full jag. The neuro problems are in there full Jags. Essentially, there is something in the matching gene the Jag gene lacks that stops the animals developing properly. Hence, co-dominant, when present it is exhibited visually, but needs a non Jag gene to compliment.
This is all information I learnt from thus site (and maybe one other) when I got my Jungle Jag because I wanted to know what he was.

The term I'd use for a multi subspecific cross like that is mudblood Carpet. But let's face it, if you're breeding jags you're not in any way concerned about genetic purity so it doesn't matter.

It's a myth that the original jag was a pure coastal. It was a jungle or jungle cross, in a place where it was legal to keep coastals but not jungles, so they said it was a coastal. There are no pure jags.

It's not a mutation which exists in the wild. A jag wouldn't survive in the wild because of the neuro issues. The first jag was a captive mutant.

It might be worth saying that there are no breeds of Carpet Pythons. There are species, subspecies, races, but not breeds. A breed is something which has been bred by humans to become different. Like all dogs being the same species, but they were bred (hence 'breed') to be big or small or have deformed eyes or legs etc. There are breeds of cats, chickens, horses etc, but not Carpet Pythons (though perhaps one day there will be).

As for what the mudbloods will look like, you'll probably get a lot of variation. Jungles and Proserpines themselves vary heaps, and Diamonds aren't all the same, so it's difficult to know what your snakes look like let alone their offspring, but I have little doubt they'll vary a lot and range from ugly to gorgeous. I'll also guarantee that if you get babies and talk about them online you'll have keyboard warriors attacking you (stir 'em up, it'll be fun ). I don't really like crosses, especially when there's no point, but hey, you're not here to be the same as me so have fun and good luck

Smurf said:

As far as I understand the Jag gene only occurs naturally in coastal carpets pythons, so any other Jag, will have some portion crossed with coastal. It is a co-dominant gene. In the case of one Jag parent you will have 25% Jag, 75% normal. With two Jag parents you will have 50% Jag offspring, then 25% normal and 25% full jag. The neuro problems are in there full Jags. Essentially, there is something in the matching gene the Jag gene lacks that stops the animals developing properly. Hence, co-dominant, when present it is exhibited visually, but needs a non Jag gene to compliment.
This is all information I learnt from thus site (and maybe one other) when I got my Jungle Jag because I wanted to know what he was.

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are you sure about this ? doesn't seem right to me IMO jag x normal = 50% jag and 50% normal sibs Jag x jag = 50%jag 25% norm sibs and 25% super form (leucistic)

Yes, sorry, you're right. I originally wrote 50/50, then I confused myself thinking about something else and changed it. Should have double checked...

The Jag mutation is what's called an incomplete dominant mutation meaning that what we refer to as Jags are the visual heterozygous animals ("hets" for short). This is different to a recessive mutation like albinism where the hets look identical to their normal counterparts (referred to as ?Wild Type?) and you can?t know for sure unless you breed them. In the case of albinos, the animal has to be homozygous for it to be visual.
When you?re talking about incomplete dominant mutations like Jags, the colloquial term for a homozygous animals is ?super?. Super Jags are something entirely different called a Leucistic which is basically a pure white animal. To date, there are no known surviving Leucistics as they all die in the egg or, at the very most, a couple of weeks after hatching. I recently saw autopsy photos which showed that they basically don?t have functioning lungs so I guess they slowly suffocate.

In a Jag clutch, the brothers and sisters of Jags that don?t carry the Jag mutation are referred to as Jag Siblings (?sibs? for short). When you think about it, it?s a pretty common sense name for them since they are technically just the siblings of Jags. It should be highlighted again that these animals are NOT Jags and therefore have no chance of producing Jags and don?t have any of the neuro or patterning that comes with them. This can be a bit confusing sometimes because their name contains the word Jag even though they aren?t.

Morants sort of covered the percentages but if you research more on genetics, make sure you remember that the percentages people mention are only statistical probabilities. There are no guarantees that your actual numbers will be anywhere near the calculated numbers.

That?s a really quick and dirty explanation on a topic that is pretty complex once you get down into it but hopefully that helps you understand or at least gives you some new words to Google and help with your learning.

You can make your own mind up about whether you agree with cross-breeding or not. Don?t let people sway you either way. I had lots of arguments with people on here over the last couple of years but it?s pretty much like politics or religion ? no one is going to change their mind and arguing about it just ends up in a poop slinging match.

With all due respect, I daresay you sound like you?re at least a couple of years away from breeding and you have a lot to learn but if you do decide you want to cross-breed just make sure you are responsible and transparent when it comes to selling them on.

Hope that helps.