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Primo

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I've been quite interested in the head shape "in general" amongst the carpet group. One thing I'm seeing is that the albino Darwin carpets seem to posses very large jaw muscles at the rear of the head. This may be accentuated by the albinism coloring and really not a physical trait, or is it?

I tend to go to the OZ crew when I have questions involving genetics/traits, and figure you guys will have an idea of what the various species/sub-sps may or may not have when it comes to shapes and sizes of the heads.

So, knowing every individual will have some degree of "its own" shape and size, I'll ask the following.

Do you guys see certain traits like flatter heads, more blunt or pointed snouts, wider jaw muscles or anything else that is maybe more common or generalized in certain groups?

I saw a photo somewhere with a Bredli and a Jungle together and the Bredli seemed to have a much wider snout and the jungle seemed to have more of a pointed snout. The rear of each seemed equally as wide, but the jungle's jaws were more accented because of the more triangular shape of the head.

I'm just wondering if there are some characteristics that are unique to certain groups.

I could be seeing male/female differences as well I'm not sure, but I know in boa constrictors there are some shape differences between the two sexes generally.

Thanks for any info.

PS.

If you have any really nice head photos post away!
 
i too have noticed that gorgeous 'arrow head' seemingly typical to Albino's!
Our standard coastals all have a much more solid kind of wedge shape.
I have a few mug shots ill dig up to show you what i mean.

Bredli are definite meatheads! thicker all round.

Id be interested for some other's opinions too :)
 
i too have noticed that gorgeous 'arrow head' seemingly typical to Albino's!
Our standard coastals all have a much more solid kind of wedge shape.
I have a few mug shots ill dig up to show you what i mean.

Bredli are definite meatheads! thicker all round.

Id be interested for some other's opinions too :)

Thanks for adding to the topic, and I really do see "balloons" at the back of the albino Darwin's heads usually.

This is a young coastal that I own (obviously a mix). She is 5' 2" long at 1.5 years and her head is relatively flat and somewhat long from snout to neck. I don't really see the accented triangle that I see on a lot of jungles or Darwins.

I see what I think looks maybe "typical" with coastals. Again She is from here in the US so she is not pure, but said to be coastal and is down from VERY coastal looking parents.

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Her nose is a bit more blunt up front.

I'll be curious to see what others show off with their photos, and if there is scientific data that supports traits that one species may have VS another.

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Oddball.Sml.jpgDSC_0354.jpgOddie And Reggie.jpgDSC_0393.jpg



Okay! So, i have another theory to throw out there.. and this comes purely from my own observations!

My girl Oddie, ( first 3 pics) Ive had since a hatchling, and i like to move up feeding sizes fairly quickly, often startling non-snake keepers when they see the size of the rats / quail my guys are taking.
Now! Notice my Darwin girls big boofy head! When compared to my male Sprocket, he has a much much narrower head, and his keeper was feeding him mice and small rats!

He assures me he is pure darwin... genetics? In my mind it isnt too far-fetched to think the diet of a creature would influence its morphology, especially having had her from 2months old!

Opinions?

- - - Updated - - -

Sprocket is almost an in between typical darwin head shape and that of an albino! Albino's ive seen have had much larger bulges at the backs of their heads, very much like balloons!! And an almost pinched face look about them, that i like very much! Such an arrow head :)

- - - Updated - - -

She's lovely :) Id say she is very much coastal, with a hint of diamond perhaps?
First is pure diamond, second two are coastals adult fem, then young male

Sykes.jpgDSC_0086.jpgCactus.jpg

DSC_0354.jpg

Oddball.Sml.jpg

Oddie And Reggie.jpg

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DSC_0086.jpg

Sykes.jpg

Cactus.jpg
 
Good point when mentioning the prey size, but I too have my 1.5 year old on large prey. She is eating the same size large rats and quail as my 2.5 year old boa constrictor and he is easily triple her girth.

There is a study in THE BIOLOGY OF BOAS AND PYTHONS , a book written some years back, that examined head shape, size and skeletal properties of specimens being fed large prey VS small prey. The only change noted was an increase in some muscle in the head.

So while I feel there should, in theory be some rather pronounced development in the larger prey eating snakes, I'm not really seeing it in any of 3 species, (Royal Python, Boa Constrictor, Coastal Carpet) that I keep.

Some of your photos above show that very pronounced, arrow head and I'm wondering if Darwins just have that shape as a trait, though I do see a lot of jungles with a similar look, and I'm sure there are other sub species with slightly differing shapes.

This photo is not mine but it shows a very different shape from the "arrow" we have been going on about. Notice it is rather blunt, but very deep from top of the head to bottom and not really flat looking. It looks similar to the snake posted above second one in on the bottom set of pics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Morelia_spilota_head.jpg

I'm enjoying this topic and chat.

Lovely looking animals you have there as well!
 
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Wonderful!! Glad to hear there's been some research on the subject :)

I think it shows in a more solid overall head. My male Darwin Sprocket is so petite, with such a noodle neck ! Mind you, he still hammers his food.. Where as my chunky female has a far stockier head with a thicker neck, you can see this in your girl too! Particularly in that first pic :) Relative to size though, she can handle much larger prey.
Males are typically leaner overall though..

Woah, what a meat head! I think the largest difference with this girl is age! She looks a grand old girl, having maxed out in length a while ago, and been bulking up ever since! Hehe.
Is she wild caught? Wild girls that size would be taking down wallaby's and possums with ease

Thankyou!
And as am i :)
 
I was hoping this thread would have generated more interest. I'm still trying find somebody who has info that may show certain species/Ssp of carpet pythons have a unique head shape compared to others, for instance, coastal VS darwin.

Maybe the lack of responses here should tell me I picked a boring topic LOL!

No worries if it's not interesting to others, I'll live.
 
Until this week I've had very hit & miss internet for the past 6 weeks (some mods to our wireless bb tower apparently but bloody slow & frustrating...) so I didn't see this thread till now. Having seen hundreds (probably thousands) of Carpets of all kinds over the years, I'd say head shape/size can be as variable among individuals of the same subspecies/species as can colour and pattern - that is, within the parameters of the particular species patterning, you'll get quite a variation but you'll always be able to tell what sort of Carpet it is from the colour & pattern, for example, Spidergirl's Carpet is obviously a Darwin.

The Wiki photo is obviously a big old (probably) girl - as they age they get very "boofy" in the head, and the proportion of eye size to overall head size diminishes significantly overall. Compare the relative eye size between a youngster and an old adult... This might not happen until the animal is 20+ years old, so few of the newer keepers will have seen it, and they don't ever go out into the bush and encounter wild pythons. (I reckon if you asked how many keepers had even seen a wild snake in the bush, the number would be dismal).

My opinion is that the relatively small variations in head shape are not confined to species or subspecies, they are just expressions of genetic variation, similar to colour & pattern.

Jamie
 
Until this week I've had very hit & miss internet for the past 6 weeks (some mods to our wireless bb tower apparently but bloody slow & frustrating...) so I didn't see this thread till now. Having seen hundreds (probably thousands) of Carpets of all kinds over the years, I'd say head shape/size can be as variable among individuals of the same subspecies/species as can colour and pattern - that is, within the parameters of the particular species patterning, you'll get quite a variation but you'll always be able to tell what sort of Carpet it is from the colour & pattern, for example, Spidergirl's Carpet is obviously a Darwin.

The Wiki photo is obviously a big old (probably) girl - as they age they get very "boofy" in the head, and the proportion of eye size to overall head size diminishes significantly overall. Compare the relative eye size between a youngster and an old adult... This might not happen until the animal is 20+ years old, so few of the newer keepers will have seen it, and they don't ever go out into the bush and encounter wild pythons. (I reckon if you asked how many keepers had even seen a wild snake in the bush, the number would be dismal).

My opinion is that the relatively small variations in head shape are not confined to species or subspecies, they are just expressions of genetic variation, similar to colour & pattern.

Jamie


That's a fantastic answer, and the fact you've been out and about in the bush makes the answer pretty solid in my book.

I have a coastal mix of some type. The mother is 10 feet long and very thick. I think the breeder took this picture 3 years ago of the mother.

Mum:

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This girl, that I own is just approaching 6 feet (5 feet 7 inches) and is a bit thicker than a garden hose and coming up on 2 years old.

Her head is long and flat but lacks the bulbous muscle in the rear.


Thanks a lot for you reply. The wild habits and traits of these animals interest me greatly.

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