Brown Snake Troubles

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humba_jumba

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Hey guys just after a bit of advice on the best way to deal with a brown snake problem... On our property we have seen a few of them this year and yesterday was to close for comfort... Our property is in the bush near Bonogin and there just seems to be an influx of them around... We have plenty of kids around and we are constantly teaching the kids about what to do if you come across a snake... Stop, get away from the snake and let an adult know... Is there anything more I can teach the kids to do... I am constantly talking to them about looking if you are reaching into a bush to retrieve a tennis ball and being aware at all times...
Yesterday we came across a brown snake on our entrance path it was extremely hard to spot as it was in the bush with about 2 cms of its head popping out very aware of me... I have encountered keelbacks on the property, pythons, and other snakes I could not id... I am extremely against killing them, not only do I respect them, I am aware of the laws around snake killing... I just really noticed how aware this particular brown snake was in comparison to the keelback which to be honest just slithered away and that's the last I saw it... This particular snake yesterday was standing its ground and completely aware of me at every turn... I stood a fair distance away from it however it was in a really unsafe place and I am not sure others would have seen had I not pointed it out... I have advised the property managers to remove bushes around the entrance way to ensure that if there is a snake hanging about it is easily noticeable...

Is there anything more I can teach children and other people who share the particular area we keep coming across the snakes??? we get all sorts on the property and I am concerned about the safety of others!!! Feel free to respond with any tips, thanks very much!!!
 
hey there,

A snake standing its ground like what you described could be a female with eggs nearby, they're known to chase people away if they're nesting. i would advice the children not to go near that area if the snake does become aggressive/starts chasing. If that happens I would call a local snake wrangler to pick the animal up because it should stay where it is (near the nest site) they usually wont come to pick a snake up unless the snake is in your house or you know exactly where its at outside.

we had three browns and lots of babies in our old garden and they would always run away instead of chase me, so for the most part you should be okay. Good idea to tell the kids to stop where they're at and slowly move away and to an adult if they see a snake. If the snakes neck is in a strike position "S for strike" they should run away instead of slowly walk
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I also work at a zoo, zoos are well known for being overrun but hungry browns that go after the mice that eat food the animals drop. In the summer months we get atleast one brown alert a week, thats around 20 snakes a year, for the past two years no catchers or customers have been bitten, browns would definitely rather run then fight!
 
Humba jumba,

I've literally dealt with hundreds of Browns throughout my life....too many to even attempt to count.

From what I read there's not a lot more advise you can give the kids or visitors. You've pretty much got it covered. It's also a good idea to tell them that as soon as they become aware of a snake to put as much distance between themselves and the snake as soon as this is possible. If they see one from a distance then go the other way. If it's in close proximity, step back and move away. The snake will not chase them unless provoked. One thing I would add is to teach them what to do in case of a bite and the correct method for treating snake bite using a pressure bandage just in case someone does get tagged. Keep a couple of pressure bandages handy and make sure everyone knows where they are.

Despite what a lot of people believe they are not an aggressive species of snake, just very alert and highly strung and will only defend themselves if they feel directly threatened. Even if they are accidently trodden on or grabbed their usual response is to attempt to get away before biting. Unfortunately, in saying that there is the occasional exception but 9 times out of 10, given the choice, they will take to the hills to avoid a confrontation with a larger potentially aggressive animal rather than stand there ground. The scenario you described above appears to me to be a situation where the snake was just as scared as you and concerned for it's own survival. It's pretty obvious to me that all it wanted to do was watch what you were up to and wait for the opportunity to flee the area.

hey there,

A snake standing its ground like what you described could be a female with eggs nearby, they're known to chase people away if they're nesting. i would advice the children not to go near that area if the snake does become aggressive/starts chasing. If that happens I would call a local snake wrangler to pick the animal up because it should stay where it is (near the nest site) they usually wont come to pick a snake up unless the snake is in your house or you know exactly where its at outside.

we had three browns and lots of babies in our old garden and they would always run away instead of chase me, so for the most part you should be okay. Good idea to tell the kids to stop where they're at and slowly move away and to an adult if they see a snake. If the snakes neck is in a strike position "S for strike" they should run away instead of slowly walk
attachment.php


I also work at a zoo, zoos are well known for being overrun but hungry browns that go after the mice that eat food the animals drop. In the summer months we get atleast one brown alert a week, thats around 20 snakes a year, for the past two years no catchers or customers have been bitten, browns would definitely rather run then fight!

Dopamel,

I know that your only trying to help but you should not post if you don't know what your talking about.

FYI...Brown Snakes (Pseudonaja sp) do not "nest' and have no instinct to protect their eggs. They will lay them where they think the eggs have the best chance of hatching but do not hang around to protect them or the young. The female will return to where she has deposited her clutch at a later date to check if they have hatched and if the location has proved successful she will return there each season to lay her clutch. If anything happens to the location in the meantime she starts the search for a suitable spot over again. If anything, because she will not recognise her own young, there is every chance that if she comes across any juvenile snakes she will more than likely eat them.

They also do not aggregate in family groups as you suggest.

When Brown's mean business they adopt a distinct threat display by raising the first third of their body off the ground with their head (often with their mouth open), neck and upper body tucked in nice and tight and use the lower part of their body to spring off the ground to launch themselves toward the aggressor.

Cheers,

George.
 
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thanks for the response George, it definitely did want to get away the only problem was as there is a business ran out of the property it was already feeling threatened and in a really high traffic spot where had people not been aware of it there could have been potentially someone bitten... I will bring more awareness and advise people the correct first aid techniques and awareness around snakes... I have seen 12already this year not necessarily browns but there is all sorts of snakes on this property... The best one being a nice python hanging about... I seriously am concerned for the high traffic area because out of the 12 seen this year 10have been seen in this area, every one of them between 1pm and 7pm... I wish they would lope out the foliage and admit there is a snake problem, if they ripped out the foliage at least the snakes would be visible, they don't worry me when I can see them, the one feeling threatened hiding in a high foot traffic area does concern me because we all know the snake is at no fault if it comes into contact with humans... again thanks kindly for your advise...
 
Dopamel ? Are you serious ? What type of advice is that? Brown snakes don't nest and they certainly won't chase people away from their eggs. As George said they lay their eggs and then leave them to hatch. Brown snakes, like any snake will not chase people, they will always try to avoid contact with people if given the opportunity.
 
If your seeing a number in a certain area you have to also wonder why they are there.
Usually it will be food related. Check the area for the food source that is attracting the snakes and if you can remove that, then there really isn't any reason for them to be there.
Also have your local relocators number ready, he /she should also be able to give advice on why they are there at that particular spot and may have some ideas on getting it cleaned up.
Clearing out any cover is a good start, if it doesn't have to be there.

When you teach the kids about snakes, get them involved by actually showing them how to treat a bite and get them to do it on each other, ie how to bandage and sling or splint and mock dial 000 as an excercise, and then a refresher every week or so. if someone is tagged, they may be unable to speak, but a kid with the right knowledge can still make a phone call etc. and save a life.
 
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Browns are very active/ aware of their surroundings, especially this time of the year with plenty of heat/sun, they are out and about with fully charged batteries.
Our family owns 11,000 acres of grain and cattle property in Nsw and it has always had very large populations of brown snakes and in 3 generations no one has ever been bitten on ours or neighbouring properties.

Best advice is- be educated, be prepared, be aware. The most important I think is to reduce rodent populations, remove rubbish etc.

If all else fails there is always NZ- not too many browns there and I kinda like dopamels mass nesting/snake pit of doom theory, good times.
 
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The fact that you have had 12 snakes already this year indicates that they are being attracted, rather than just passing through. Providing food, water and/or shelter are what can attract snakes.

Young browns feed primarily on skinks and adults on rodents, but both will also take frogs if available. Mice and rats establish where they can gain regular access to food, such as bird seed, chook laying pellets, seeding grasses, hay and any other fairly dry pet foods, including that used for dogs or cats. If rodent access to feed trays or spilt feed cannot be totally prevented, then you WILL get mice and rats. If you cannot eliminate access completely, then you will need to take other on-going
active measures to reduce rodents (trapping, baiting).

You mentioned the occurrence of a Keelback. Given these are almost exclusively frog eaters in nature, this would indicate some form of water feature providing frogs, along with drinking water, as added attractions.


To reduce available shelter for snakes near the dwelling, keep all grass areas well trimmed, prune all bushy shrubs a foot or so above ground level, get rid of any surface debris, don’t stack anything directly on the ground, use rodent wire to exclude
snake access to under the house (if needed) and use cement or spray filler foam to prevent snake access to underneath rockeries and behind or within retaining walls.

Unfortunately you are renting and some of these things may be cost prohibitive. All I can suggest, and it is only only a suggestion for you to contemplate, is putting your recent experiences and related concerns in writing, along with what you consider is needed to address this situation, and why, and send it to the Property Manager while you cc a copy to the Residential Tenancies Authority. You might even consider indicating that you would be prepared to take legal action if nothing is done and someone comes to grief, as it will have been a prior established health and safety risk that was not acted upon.


You stated “This particular snake yesterday was standing its ground” as if it was deliberately not going to move off. You also mention you kept a good distance away from it. Browns are essentially daytime-active terrestrial hunters that go after fast moving prey. Yet at the same time they need to avoid potential predators and any large animals which might trample them. Understandably they are therefore highly reactive to visual stimuli ("aware"). The common fence skink is in exactly the same boat, and as we know they watch your every move and if you get too close, they’re off!

Browns know whether or not they are in cover or exposed, such as when in the open. You can walk very to a brown that feels its presence is concealed but won’t get within metres of one out in the open before it reacts. So I would not presume from its behaviour that it was “holding its ground”. It was simply watching any movement, as it needs to do to survive. I am certain from personal experience in similar situations, that had you approached it, it would have disappeared very quickly before you got near it.

In closing, I reckon you are doing an excellent job in educating your children to be ‘snake smart’. The only thing I would add is... shoes, socks and long pants when outside in potential snake territory during the active season and definitely NO rolling up the pants legs to cool off.
 
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Unfortunately you are renting and some of these things may be cost prohibitive. All I can suggest, and it is only only a suggestion for you to contemplate, is putting your recent experiences and related concerns in writing, along with what you consider is needed to address this situation, and why, and send it to the Property Manager while you cc a copy to the Residential Tenancies Authority. You might even consider indicating that you would be prepared to take legal action if nothing is done and someone comes to grief, as it will have been a prior established health and safety risk that was not acted upon.

Probably not a good idea to start threatening your landlord with legal action at this stage - it's a sure way to start a war which will have only one outcome - your eviction... Notifying the property owner or manager of your concerns, in writing, with a request for whatever action you consider appropriate, is ALL you should do at this stage, and wait for a response. If none is forthcoming, then you may want to take it further, but if you get all bolshi in the first communication, you'll bugger your relationship with your landlord for good.

Jamie
 
No, no I wont be threatening action, at the end of the day its a joint business and the land owners don't want the snakes around either... From what I have heard it has been put forward in writing to remove the foliage and bushes around that entrance path to make snakes clearly visible if they are around... If we can see them, we can leave them alone and let them go on there merry ways... its the ones you can't see which are of concern and I think we handled that well by making people aware of it and going an alternate route into the building... The snake slithered off and no one was at risk... It really is one of those situations where hopefully the right communication and outcome will prevail... There is no way known the snakes will ever just go, and that is an unrealistic outcome to hope for... We will continue to teach the children around snake awareness and the correct first aid techniques as well as teach them to not panic... Thankyou all for your advice and one last question is there any snake catchers in the Bonogin area??? Thanks again everybody...
 
Refreshing to see someone with a great attitude towards vens in their own habitat. Kudos humba_jumba.
 
Other common sense things you teach the kids to do are

- stay out of long grass or areas where a snake might be (because they need the security)
- to watch where they are stepping and make lots of noise if they must go though bush or long grass - chances are the snakes will then here them coming and move away from the source of the noises
- no thongs/bare feet in snake season , shoes will offer a bit of protection in an encounter (and will also protect from other dangerous critters such as trap doors and funnel webs).
- and leave any snakes you see be and admire them from a safe distance only, don't try to chase it away or attack it.


Other than that , and being no expert on snakes at all , I can't offer anything more than already offered by others.
 
You have kids that play outside ????????? What's wrong with them.... Get a computer and those games ....lol..... Just kidding
 
No, no I wont be threatening action, at the end of the day its a joint business and the land owners don't want the snakes around either... From what I have heard it has been put forward in writing to remove the foliage and bushes around that entrance path to make snakes clearly visible if they are around...
While I agree with Pythoninfinite’s comments, I would point out that I very deliberately prefaced my comment about legal action with “might even consider”, indicating that it was not necessarily a course of action to be taken and that it should be considered before doing so.


The only reason I included the comment was because of a couple of statements that you made: “I have advised the property managers to remove bushes around the entrance way to ensure that if there is a snake hanging about it is easily noticeable”, followed up in your second post by: “I wish they would lope out the foliage and admit there is a snake problem”. From that I inferred (apparently incorrectly) that what approaches you had made were to no avail. Glad to hear that it seems that is not the cae and that something positive is going to be done.

.... If none is forthcoming, then you may want to take it further, but if you get all bolshi in the first communication, you'll bugger your relationship with your landlord for good.
While I don’t understand your use of “bolshi”, according to what was said earlier it would not be a “first communication”.
 
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