Help with building trust with my new ridge tailed monitor

[that1dude]

It has been a week since i got my new ridge tailed monitor and today he finally started coming out of his hide and exploring his tank. now that he is finally starting to get comfortable when should i start the trust building exercises? And if there is any tips out there for gaining the trust of young ridge tails other then the standard sticking your hands into the tank until he feels comfortable coming up to your hands.

any advice is much appreciated

 

[E.Shell]

I've socialized about 35 hatchlings here, as well as several older juveniles and young adults. You can start building a trusting relationship with your Ackie as soon as he gets over his fear of his new surroundings, which it seems he has done.

I would suggest feeding your animal with tweezers/tongs and get him used to associating you with food. As he gets more comfortable eating in your presence, you can shorten up the distance between your fingers and the food until you are hand feeding him. Once he learns to eat from the tongs, you can also use the food to lead him onto your other hand. Don't lift him, just let him crawl on, then off on his own accord.

Another thing that has worked is to simply lay your hand on the floor of his enclosure where he travels. They will typically cross over your hand and will get more and more comfortable with contact. Again, don't move, don't lift, just let him come and go on his own.

Note that Ackies are relatively intelligent and will learn quickly from any bad experience. Be very careful to not grab or force handling, the best message you can send is to let him stay in control. Be patient and try not to rush him and you'll do fine.

Using these methods, my hatchlings became so well socialized, I often had difficulty servicing the enclosure because they want to climb my hands and arms while I'm working. I have a male yellow now that will climb my arm, cross my shoulders, climb on my head and go down my T-shirt.

 

[that1dude]

I've socialized about 35 hatchlings here, as well as several older juveniles and young adults. You can start building a trusting relationship with your Ackie as soon as he gets over his fear of his new surroundings, which it seems he has done.

I would suggest feeding your animal with tweezers/tongs and get him used to associating you with food. As he gets more comfortable eating in your presence, you can shorten up the distance between your fingers and the food until you are hand feeding him. Once he learns to eat from the tongs, you can also use the food to lead him onto your other hand. Don't lift him, just let him crawl on, then off on his own accord.

Another thing that has worked is to simply lay your hand on the floor of his enclosure where he travels. They will typically cross over your hand and will get more and more comfortable with contact. Again, don't move, don't lift, just let him come and go on his own.

Note that Ackies are relatively intelligent and will learn quickly from any bad experience. Be very careful to not grab or force handling, the best message you can send is to let him stay in control. Be patient and try not to rush him and you'll do fine.

Using these methods, my hatchlings became so well socialized, I often had difficulty servicing the enclosure because they want to climb my hands and arms while I'm working. I have a male yellow now that will climb my arm, cross my shoulders, climb on my head and go down my T-shirt.

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I've notice that my little guy comes out the most when i feed him. it is currently winter where i am and i have heard they tend to be less active during the colder months but I'm not to sure how much it affects their activity.

in regards to tong feeding how would i go about getting him use to tong feeding without causing him any stress. I've notice that whenever i try to tong feed he is really disinterested and if i just keep it kinda close to him (about 15 cm or so) he will just go back into his hide after 5 minuets. should i move the tongs with the food in it to get his interest or should i wait till he is comfortable eating while my hands are in the tank and then start the tong feeding


I know when it comes to animals every animal is different. but when it came to building trust with your ackies how long did it take for them to be comfortable with you. Just a bit curious as i do have other reptiles and have found some take a lot more time then others (my Darwin was hand tamed within about a month of handling while my beardie has taken almost 4 month for her to be ok with hand feeding however she is still a bit iffy about being handled)

 

[E.Shell]

I've notice that my little guy comes out the most when i feed him.

Be sure to let him see you place food in the enclosure with the tongs. Give him time to get used to seeing your hand. He will probably begin to anticipate you placing the food and put himself in a spot to meet you.

Also let him see you harmlessly servicing the enclosure, tidying up and changing water. Move slowly and deliberately, they are programmed to react to quick motions,

it is currently winter where i am and i have heard they tend to be less active during the colder months but I'm not to sure how much it affects their activity.

Yes, they can be seasonal, but that very much depends on how he is kept. We have hot summers here (102F/39C today) and cold winters (average daily temp @32F/0C with frequent dips into the teens/<-7C). We keep the house at 73F/23C in winter and 80F/27C in summer.

I keep my Ackies with lights on a timer (12 hrs/day) and in enclosures that resist temperature extremes, in a conditioned space. I have a Deep Heat Projector and a halogen lamp shining on a flat rock big enough to bask on. The DHP remains on 24/7 to keep the enclosure warm, the halogen lamp goes with the timer to bump the basking heat and provide a bright spot during the day. Except the limited natural light that filters in through the curtained windows, which is a fraction of the intensity of their basking lamp and UV-B, their daily cycle is set by the timer and I don't think they know what time of year it is - they are active year-round.

in regards to tong feeding how would i go about getting him use to tong feeding without causing him any stress. I've notice that whenever i try to tong feed he is really disinterested and if i just keep it kinda close to him (about 15 cm or so) he will just go back into his hide after 5 minuets. should i move the tongs with the food in it to get his interest or should i wait till he is comfortable eating while my hands are in the tank and then start the tong feeding

It may still be a little soon to expect him to accept food from the tongs if that's how he behaves. How large are your tongs? A little one can be intimidated by hardware that is too bulky or bright.

What are you feeding him?

Mine get 95% whole prey (crickets, waxworms and superworms (when they get bigger)), with "treats". Treats are very small pieces of soft-scrambled egg (no cooking oils, just stirred & microwaved in a glass dish), lean meat like raw chicken breast, and fresh fish. You might try tempting him by laying a tiny piece of wetted chicken or fish (so it's not so sticky) where he'll see it quickly. I've also started them on forceps with cut up waxworms and sometimes have to touch the nose of the new babies to let them understand what it is.

I know when it comes to animals every animal is different. but when it came to building trust with your ackies how long did it take for them to be comfortable with you. Just a bit curious as i do have other reptiles and have found some take a lot more time then others (my Darwin was hand tamed within about a month of handling while my beardie has taken almost 4 month for her to be ok with hand feeding however she is still a bit iffy about being handled)

The actual time varies with many factors, and also varies with your behavioral expectations. I don't think I can say it will take a certain number of days or weeks to reach a certain level.

Animals vary tremendously, even within a single species. I had one Beardie that was so acclimated to me touching and feeding him, he wouldn't eat unless I handed it to him. I had another adoption whose only desire was to kill me, in spite of how docile most are.

Building/maintaining trust is an ongoing process and there are several plateaus that are reached, but it really needs to be an ongoing thing. I reach in every morning and touch mine, lightly rubbing a head, chin or the side of their belly, gently lifting a dangling tail...brief non-threatening exposure/reinforcement.

Something not often mentioned is eye contact and avoidance. Try not to stare at your animal. To be stared upon by a binocular-vision (predatory) being is unsettling to many animals and especially birds. Use one eye at a time or turn your head off to the side as to not appear focused.

Being lower also helps avoid fear. Try not to tower over you Ackie. Although many of my babies were raised against common advice in open top aquariums, they got used to me coming in from above from the time they were hatched. In fact, I started working with mine when they were very young and they never really got a chance to learn to be afraid of me.

This is not always true of animals bought from others, and many breeders don't spend any real time with the babies. It DOES take a lot of time, but I felt that it was a big advantage to the final owner to receive an animal that was already well socialized. I realize the frustration of having an animal that is afraid of you and it can be stressful to both, especially an inexperienced owner.

Getting an Ackie used to seeing you in the enclosure is a big start and will go hand-in-hand with their acceptance of tong feeding. Let them see the tongs deliver the food. Tempt them by dangling a food item nearby, lightly drag it nearby to spread scent.

Once he trusts you enough to approach you for food, you can use food as a tool to gain compliance. Bait him up close to your other hand before releasing the tidbit, then work him onto your hand, making that the food bowl. I don't mean to tell you to starve your animal at all, but being a little hungry improves cooperation immensely, as does the desire for something special.

As he gets used to taking food from tongs, shorten your grip to get your fingers closer to him little by little. You will eventually be able to abandon the tongs, although every once in a while one of my adults might snag me with a tooth while enthusiastically accepting food. I think adult Ackies are about as a large a monitor I'd want to hand feed and even an Ackie can accidentally draw a few dots of blood if they are aggressive feeders.

It won't take long if you spend small blocks of time with him often. 5-10 minutes a few times a day would be ideal. I think it is important to spend a little bit of quality time, then withdraw on a positive note. As soon as he accepts something from your tongs, put the rest of his meal where he can get it and back out. That method seems much more productive than overloading the Ackie's tolerance and letting him terminate the session. If you wait until he goes in to leave, he will learn to go in so you will leave.

As he gets used to coming into your hand for food, you can touch him with a finger while he's there. I find they are most tolerant of being lightly touched on the flanks and underside of the tail early on and it sometimes takes time to permit head rubs.

Be careful, they can be extremely fast and if he rapidly climbs your arm and gets out, there is risk of injury from the fall and forcibly catching him will be terrifying. One escape can cost you weeks or months of trust if not handled correctly. If he does get out, try to trap him in a small box against the wall or throw a small towel over him as to keep your hand from being the "bad guy".

Early and often:


Leaving my hand in his path:


Avoiding me this pass:


Success, if only for an instant:


I bought this one as a young adult and he was extremely shy at first. He had never been handled and it took six months to get to this. Food (scrambled egg in this case) is a powerful tool.



Patience pays off. This one looks forward to coming out and requires very little encouragement:

 

[dragonlover1]

I don't have ackies but I do breed lace monitors, I try tong feeding from about 3 weeks and have no problems. Same when I bought my pair about 7 years ago , took to tongs easy as. From bug to meat stage
Not saying it's always easy, maybe ackies are more difficult

 

[E.Shell]

Nice! I'd love to have a Lacey, but they require more space than I have and are very expensive here.

I think the size of the Ackie vs the Lacey probably affects their attitude. Even as adults, the Ackies remain small enough to be prey for many predators and are likely a little more timid.

I suspect the OP's Ackie will come around once he settles in. A week in a new environment isn't much time. I'd bet that when he figures out the tongs and hands mean food, everything will change.

 

[dragonlover1]

Nice! I'd love to have a Lacey, but they require more space than I have and are very expensive here.

I think the size of the Ackie vs the Lacey probably affects their attitude. Even as adults, the Ackies remain small enough to be prey for many predators and are likely a little more timid.

I suspect the OP's Ackie will come around once he settles in. A week in a new environment isn't much time. I'd bet that when he figures out the tongs and hands mean food, everything will change.

I also keep a couple of smaller monitors, I have gillens and western storrs who are fairly friendly and are tap trained but don't come for cuddles. Yes I agree the OP 's monitor will adapt and become friendly soon enough

 

[that1dude]

Be sure to let him see you place food in the enclosure with the tongs. Give him time to get used to seeing your hand. He will probably begin to anticipate you placing the food and put himself in a spot to meet you.

Also let him see you harmlessly servicing the enclosure, tidying up and changing water. Move slowly and deliberately, they are programmed to react to quick motions,

Yes, they can be seasonal, but that very much depends on how he is kept. We have hot summers here (102F/39C today) and cold winters (average daily temp @32F/0C with frequent dips into the teens/<-7C). We keep the house at 73F/23C in winter and 80F/27C in summer.

I keep my Ackies with lights on a timer (12 hrs/day) and in enclosures that resist temperature extremes, in a conditioned space. I have a Deep Heat Projector and a halogen lamp shining on a flat rock big enough to bask on. The DHP remains on 24/7 to keep the enclosure warm, the halogen lamp goes with the timer to bump the basking heat and provide a bright spot during the day. Except the limited natural light that filters in through the curtained windows, which is a fraction of the intensity of their basking lamp and UV-B, their daily cycle is set by the timer and I don't think they know what time of year it is - they are active year-round.

It may still be a little soon to expect him to accept food from the tongs if that's how he behaves. How large are your tongs? A little one can be intimidated by hardware that is too bulky or bright.

What are you feeding him?

Mine get 95% whole prey (crickets, waxworms and superworms (when they get bigger)), with "treats". Treats are very small pieces of soft-scrambled egg (no cooking oils, just stirred & microwaved in a glass dish), lean meat like raw chicken breast, and fresh fish. You might try tempting him by laying a tiny piece of wetted chicken or fish (so it's not so sticky) where he'll see it quickly. I've also started them on forceps with cut up waxworms and sometimes have to touch the nose of the new babies to let them understand what it is.

The actual time varies with many factors, and also varies with your behavioral expectations. I don't think I can say it will take a certain number of days or weeks to reach a certain level.

Animals vary tremendously, even within a single species. I had one Beardie that was so acclimated to me touching and feeding him, he wouldn't eat unless I handed it to him. I had another adoption whose only desire was to kill me, in spite of how docile most are.

Building/maintaining trust is an ongoing process and there are several plateaus that are reached, but it really needs to be an ongoing thing. I reach in every morning and touch mine, lightly rubbing a head, chin or the side of their belly, gently lifting a dangling tail...brief non-threatening exposure/reinforcement.

Something not often mentioned is eye contact and avoidance. Try not to stare at your animal. To be stared upon by a binocular-vision (predatory) being is unsettling to many animals and especially birds. Use one eye at a time or turn your head off to the side as to not appear focused.

Being lower also helps avoid fear. Try not to tower over you Ackie. Although many of my babies were raised against common advice in open top aquariums, they got used to me coming in from above from the time they were hatched. In fact, I started working with mine when they were very young and they never really got a chance to learn to be afraid of me.

This is not always true of animals bought from others, and many breeders don't spend any real time with the babies. It DOES take a lot of time, but I felt that it was a big advantage to the final owner to receive an animal that was already well socialized. I realize the frustration of having an animal that is afraid of you and it can be stressful to both, especially an inexperienced owner.

Getting an Ackie used to seeing you in the enclosure is a big start and will go hand-in-hand with their acceptance of tong feeding. Let them see the tongs deliver the food. Tempt them by dangling a food item nearby, lightly drag it nearby to spread scent.

Once he trusts you enough to approach you for food, you can use food as a tool to gain compliance. Bait him up close to your other hand before releasing the tidbit, then work him onto your hand, making that the food bowl. I don't mean to tell you to starve your animal at all, but being a little hungry improves cooperation immensely, as does the desire for something special.

As he gets used to taking food from tongs, shorten your grip to get your fingers closer to him little by little. You will eventually be able to abandon the tongs, although every once in a while one of my adults might snag me with a tooth while enthusiastically accepting food. I think adult Ackies are about as a large a monitor I'd want to hand feed and even an Ackie can accidentally draw a few dots of blood if they are aggressive feeders.

It won't take long if you spend small blocks of time with him often. 5-10 minutes a few times a day would be ideal. I think it is important to spend a little bit of quality time, then withdraw on a positive note. As soon as he accepts something from your tongs, put the rest of his meal where he can get it and back out. That method seems much more productive than overloading the Ackie's tolerance and letting him terminate the session. If you wait until he goes in to leave, he will learn to go in so you will leave.

As he gets used to coming into your hand for food, you can touch him with a finger while he's there. I find they are most tolerant of being lightly touched on the flanks and underside of the tail early on and it sometimes takes time to permit head rubs.

Be careful, they can be extremely fast and if he rapidly climbs your arm and gets out, there is risk of injury from the fall and forcibly catching him will be terrifying. One escape can cost you weeks or months of trust if not handled correctly. If he does get out, try to trap him in a small box against the wall or throw a small towel over him as to keep your hand from being the "bad guy".

Early and often:
View attachment 336375

Leaving my hand in his path:
View attachment 336377

Avoiding me this pass:
View attachment 336378

Success, if only for an instant:
View attachment 336379

I bought this one as a young adult and he was extremely shy at first. He had never been handled and it took six months to get to this. Food (scrambled egg in this case) is a powerful tool.
View attachment 336381
View attachment 336382

Patience pays off. This one looks forward to coming out and requires very little encouragement:
View attachment 336383
View attachment 336384
View attachment 336385

i tried some of the advice you gave yesterday and he approached my hand when i had it in there and even ran over it.

in regards to what I'm feeding him i am currently giving him a diet of cricks small woodies and when i get a hold of it pet safe turkey mince as I've seen a lot of people online recommending that for ackies. this is mainly what i plan on doing for his baby diet but once he gets older he will be getting a some more foods like super worms, meal worms. there is a few things regarding his diet I'm am wondering though. i am crazy enough to own 2 female emus which will be laying eggs soon, would very small and i do mean small portions of those eggs be a better choice for him rather then chicken eggs. i also was wondering if earth worms would be a good idea for him.

in regards to my feeding tongs i have 2. one being about 20 cm long as its meant for feeding at a distances and one very short (7 cm) tong for close up feeding. i tend to use the longer tongs as my though process is he might be more willing to go for the longer tongs as the food is further away from my hands therefore being less threatening

when it comes to my set up i have a 150 wat basking lamp that is on a timer with real time temperature tracking. this gives him a very good heat gradient (his basking spot being a good 45-50 degrees while the ambient temperature is around 27-30 degrees and his cool spot is around 23-25 degrees.) not to mention i have loads of hides for him with it being layered so he has hides at different levels all being at different temps.


just a little final update about how he is going. I put my hand into his tank yesterday and just held it their in his usual path and after about 30 seconds he ran over to my hand and started smelling it then proceeded to walk over it. he did seem really unphased about my hand being in their however about 5 minuets later he did go back into one of his hides which i did take as him being done with me being in the tank for now.

currently its his feeding time and he is looking at me with his tongue out so ill give it another go and see what happens and ill update with a edit/post

Nice! I'd love to have a Lacey, but they require more space than I have and are very expensive here.

I think the size of the Ackie vs the Lacey probably affects their attitude. Even as adults, the Ackies remain small enough to be prey for many predators and are likely a little more timid.

I suspect the OP's Ackie will come around once he settles in. A week in a new environment isn't much time. I'd bet that when he figures out the tongs and hands mean food, everything will change.

so far he is semi comfortable with my hands and is starting to learn the tongs mean food

I don't have ackies but I do breed lace monitors, I try tong feeding from about 3 weeks and have no problems. Same when I bought my pair about 7 years ago , took to tongs easy as. From bug to meat stage
Not saying it's always easy, maybe ackies are more difficult

when i was looking into monitors i wanted to get a lacey as i have a friend who owns one and he acts just like a dog but luckily i came to my senses and realized my first monitor should probably not be bigger then my self and also require a lot less space. i do live on property so its not like i don't have the space for one but i most likely couldn't afford the feed for an adult one on my current wages

Ok little update on my ridge tail.

just fed him and he did come up to my hand again but it was much more brief then last time and it was mainly because my hand was in the way of his roach. i have started to put some of his food into the tank with my tongs so hopefully with enough time he will learn that that tongs mean food. but so far he appears to be getting more comfortable with each day as he gets use to his surroundings. he is hiding much less now and is properly exploring his tank and hunting his prey along with enjoying his basking spot.

 

[Herpetology]

Monitors are a lot smarter than people give them credit for... always observing and learning routines... able to be conditioned, target training, handling, etc

 

[dragonlover1]

Monitors are a lot smarter than people give them credit for... always observing and learning routines... able to be conditioned, target training, handling, etc

Absolutely. I started with beardies and thought they were smart, then I got frillies and went wow they are much smarter than beardies. And then I got Lacies and I was blown away how intelligent they are , and they never forget anything

1 thing forgotten here is to talk to them while you do stuff, I know they don't speak English but they do associate certain sounds with certain movements.
I have always explained my different movements, " here is some water ", " who wants a mouse"? "where is Anna"? and she always pops her head out when I call, the pair know their own names and react.
Keep it simple but use the same words every time.

 

[that1dude]

1 thing forgotten here is to talk to them while you do stuff, I know they don't speak English but they do associate certain sounds with certain movements.
I have always explained my different movements, " here is some water ", " who wants a mouse"? "where is Anna"? and she always pops her head out when I call, the pair know their own names and react.
Keep it simple but use the same words every time.

i never knew they were able to associate words with action. i knew they were smart but i didn't know they were that smart. i will be sure to speak to him now.

Absolutely. I started with beardies and thought they were smart, then I got frillies and went wow they are much smarter than beardies. And then I got Lacies and I was blown away how intelligent they are , and they never forget anything

oh yeah beardies are rather intelligent little guys. mine has figure out her feeding schedule and gets cranky at me if i miss it

 

[dragonlover1]

here's a couple of pics tong feeding pinky mice to baby lacies today

 

[E.Shell]

....1 thing forgotten here is to talk to them while you do stuff, I know they don't speak English but they do associate certain sounds with certain movements.
I have always explained my different movements, " here is some water ", " who wants a mouse"? "where is Anna"? and she always pops her head out when I call, the pair know their own names and react.
Keep it simple but use the same words every time.

Good point! I talk to mine too, mainly just to give warning I'm coming in, but also tell them ", Here, look what I've got." when handing them food.

...so far he is semi comfortable with my hands and is starting to learn the tongs mean food...

So how goes progress?