Keelback or rough scaled?

[Kitah]

Hi guys.. I have an ID question, not sure If you'll be able to, considering I don't have photos. Tonight (about an hour or 2 ago) I saw a snake along the wall on the concrete out the front of the house im staying at. Turned the light on to have a look at it, and it looks like a keelback, but I wasn't 100% sure so didn't want to get too close. The reason I wanted to get close though was to catch and relocate it, as my aunt and uncle (im staying with them to do work placement) kill all the snakes they see (even if theyre certain theyre harmlesS), and they said the only way the snake would be allowed to live would be if I relocated it- so obviously i wanted to relocate it.

My aunt ended up freaking it out with a broom just before I got it into a pillowcase, so it got away.. but I'm guessing it'll come back as it was heading to the pond where there are a few goldfish. I'm guessing it was a keelback as its night time, it was heading towards goldish.. and to me it looked like a keelback. It had a slender head, located on acreridge on the sunshine coast.

What would you say this snake was? Would I be safe to try and catch it if it comes back? Its for the safety of the snake, I know it would be best not to move it, but its that or it gets the damn 'shovel' treatment, regardless of my protests

 

[DanTheMan]

That's a tough one, can you describe its patterns?
As it was up on a wall, I would lean towards Rough Scaled as they are partially arboreal, and Keelbacks are not, both are diurnal and nocturnal, active at night on warm nights.
Another thing iv noticed, apart from obvious different head shapes (keelbacks longer as you described) is Keelback's scales are much more keeled than a Rough Scaled.
If it comes back, just put the pillow case infront of it and touch its tail with a stick or whatever if your worried, and guide it in. that way you dont have to touch it, try get some pics if you see it again.

Ill have a look through my pics, iv got some up close head shots of both species

 

[redbellybite]

you need to be able to know what a loreal scale is ..that way you couldve had a posistive ID as the rough scale doesnt have one ...also the keelback has a smaller head but like I said the scale is the give away..

 

[Kitah]

Dan, thats what I was trying to do; I had lined the pillowcase up against the wall, held it up with a steel rod so my hand was away a bit, and was about to try and get it to move forward along the wall (it was in teh corner) then my aunt came over which startled it, then she freaked out with teh broom etc... and it disapeared into the grass.

Also, the snake wasnt ON the wall, it was just moving alongside it. Head shots would be great. This snake had a very blotched appearance, looks more like the typical keelback pic than a rough scaled

 

[Kitah]

mhmm apparently I type too fast.. sorry for the typos guys (i.e. teh). Gotta go soon as early morning.. hopefully this fella comes back tomorrow night so I can move him. The aunt and uncle have gone to bed so its safe for the night.

 

[DanTheMan]

Heres some pics, sorry about all the photos, but Im bored and its keeping me busy.

Rough Scaled

Compared to

Keelback, to show the patterns of a Keelback, here on the Sunshine Coast they all look like this pattern wise.

And a body shot of the Rough Scaled, you can see how smoother the scales look, you wont find a Keelback with patterns like these

Half dead one, sorry about the out of focus head, but its all I got before I had to put it out of its misery, was half dead.

 

[redbellybite]

see how there is a middle scale between the nose and eye area on the keelback ...thats the loreal scale ...

 

[Kitah]

Yup I looked up the loreal scale I did have an idea of what it was, but now I definitely know; keelback lacks the loreal scale, has a slender head, doesn't appear as smooth. I'm not pretty sure that the snake I saw was a keelback.. I shall keep an eye out for it tonight, thanks a heap!

 

[Scleropages]

darn keelbacks are awesome snakes I would kill for one

 

[zuyax]

No, no, The keelback does have the loreal scale. It may have just been a typo there, but I just wanted to make sure it things were clear since you are talking about potentially interacting with the snake. Don't want a little missing scale to land you in a bad situation.

Well, that and I feel I should second Scleropages opinion, hehe. Awsome snakes indeed. Wish I could find someone willing to part with one.

Jan

Yup I looked up the loreal scale I did have an idea of what it was, but now I definitely know; keelback lacks the loreal scale, has a slender head, doesn't appear as smooth. I'm not pretty sure that the snake I saw was a keelback.. I shall keep an eye out for it tonight, thanks a heap!

 

[DanTheMan]

You guys reckon?
Maybe if I didn't see them so often I had more of an appreciation for them, but I find them boring, and they stink!
(boring compared to elapids, no snake is boring)

 

[quickcat]

Hi We have had a keelback in our back yard tonight. Don't know much about snakes, but differences between the 2 are the loreal scale, also the keelback has a pale upper lip with a dark sutures between the large scales along the upper lip giving it an adhoc stripe like appearance (patternless on the rough scaled snake). Underneath, the scales are singular until the anal scale where they divide into 2 scales (the rough scaled snake they are all singular), and a slightly upcurved mouth (straight mouth on the rough scaled snake) You can try this site if you like, this where I looked up information to identify.
www.qm.qld.gov.au/inquiry/factsheets/keelback_snake_20080709.pdf

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