Any ideas dead BHP

[rum.pig]

Hi
I have just lost my BHP of 2 years.
I feed him a mouse as per normal, no unusual signs except he was little grumpy.
approx 16 hrs latter he regurgitated the mouse, He has never done this before. 24hrs latter he was dead with small amount of blood at his mouth and patches of yellow staining on the shavings in his cage.
He is kept by himself and had not been handled for over a month.

I know it is to late now but any ideas as to why this would have happened?

 

[jacques92]

People would want more info
temps ,cage size,feeding regime ?
what sort of subtrate?

 

[The_Geeza]

Got a pic? U sure u been feeding it as a mouse is no where near enough food for a growing BHP

 

[andynic07]

I noticed you are from NT. Was it a very hot day?

 

[Riffherper]

Sorry for your loss. You said you had him for 2 years but how old was he?

 

[rum.pig]

Ok he was indoors and as they days have been overcast with a monsoon dumping buckets of rain on us it was high 20's to low 30's. I have never measured temp as this is there native environment just a little north. I have a carpet python that is a little older and he gets feed the same time same temp and same substrate (pine shavings you buy from a pet store).
He was two years old as I bought him from the snake ranch as a hatching.
Cage size is approx 1200 x 600 with mesh roof and side vents. Feeding regime was every 2-3 weeks during the wet (hot) and 4-6 weeks during the dry (cold) this is change with observation of activity ie if they do not come out of the hide then I wait till I see them out looking for a feed. It was a large mice as the pet store did not have the small rats. when this happens (as it often does) I would feed again in a week and then just observe them as said before.
If you need more info please ask.

 

[Boiga]

Pine shaving are really bad for them mate.

 

[rum.pig]

Pine shaving are really bad for them mate.

OH

 

[Beans]

OH

Are you not even interested as to why?

Is it because how pine is treated? Or just the pine itself? Next time rum you could try Newspaper, paper towel, non-adhesive shelf liner even

 

[tahnia666]

Are you not even interested as to why?

Is it because how pine is treated? Or just the pine itself? Next time rum you could try Newspaper, paper towel, non-adhesive shelf liner even

I'm interested [MENTION=38897]Beans[/MENTION]. Why Is it bad? I thought if it was heat treated it was ok?

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

 

[CrystalMoon]

Sorry for your loss, I cannot comment on the pine shavings as I only use paper towel or butchers paper(news paper is too depressing lol) I am wondering about the mouse though? could it have been mishandled? not accusing just curious(out too long/ refrozen by pet shop/they do do it sometimes)

 

[andynic07]

I use kiln dried wood shavings from hysorb which I believe is pine. I thought once it was kiln dried the resin that gives off the lethal fumes no longer gave off the fumes. I have not had a problem with for the years that I have used it but do keep my yearling BHP's on paper as my breeder suggested that because he use hemp as a substrate and found his larger snakes would get it stuck in there gums and I thought wood shavings would be the same. I also think that one mouse would be too small of a meal for a 2 year old BHP, not saying this is the problem but more an observation as I feed my yearling BHP's roughly one 200g rat or rabbit quail every two weeks. Sometimes snakes just die but I am a little suspicious of the blood and possibly being grumpy may have been a sign something was wrong. Sorry I can't help any more than that.

 

[PythonLegs]

Too cold for your undersize/underfed animal to digest its meal, so he threw it back up. 'This is their native territory just a little north'...you're trolling, right? I'll leave anything else to others, as I'll just start swearing and get banned again.

 

[rum.pig]

Are you not even interested as to why?

Is it because how pine is treated? Or just the pine itself? Next time rum you could try Newspaper, paper towel, non-adhesive shelf liner even

Sorry Yes I am interested, very interested as my other snake is on the same stuff. I was typing at work and I was suddenly inundated by people so I had to leave it short.
The shavings are bought from a pet store so I assumed they would be safe but there lots of doggie buggers out there. I will be changing to something else very soon as if there is a slight possibility that it was the cause I would rather be safe than sorry. I might go to something a friend use to use and that was artificial grass.
The mouse was bought at a pet store who knows what they could have done to it, I did notice that it had a lot of blood around it mouth but I just put it down to struggling when it was put down.
Could regurgitating have caused internal injury?
Also a friend told me his snake did the same thing a few months ago.

- - - Updated - - -

Too cold for your undersize/underfed animal to digest its meal, so he threw it back up. 'This is their native territory just a little north'...you're trolling, right? I'll leave anything else to others, as I'll just start swearing and get banned again.

Please do not get your self banned and I ask with the intention to learn.
Assuming it was underfed why would it throw up a meal?
Assuming it is to cold why would it die soon after throwing up its meal and why does my other snake eat as per normal?

 

[andynic07]

Sorry Yes I am interested, very interested as my other snake is on the same stuff. I was typing at work and I was suddenly inundated by people so I had to leave it short.
The shavings are bought from a pet store so I assumed they would be safe but there lots of doggie buggers out there. I will be changing to something else very soon as if there is a slight possibility that it was the cause I would rather be safe than sorry. I might go to something a friend use to use and that was artificial grass.
The mouse was bought at a pet store who knows what they could have done to it, I did notice that it had a lot of blood around it mouth but I just put it down to struggling when it was put down.
Could regurgitating have caused internal injury?
Also a friend told me his snake did the same thing a few months ago.

- - - Updated - - -


Please do not get your self banned and I ask with the intention to learn.
Assuming it was underfed why would it throw up a meal?
Assuming it is to cold why would it die soon after throwing up its meal and why does my other snake eat as per normal?

Underfed may make the snake more susceptible to illness and too cold means the snake may not be able to digest the food properly to a point that the rotting process becomes higher than the digestion process causing too much bacteria to a point that the snake will regurgitate the food to try and prevent illness.

 

[BeZaKa]

rum.pig. I haven't commented on here for quiet some time but this question piqued my interest. You are the third case with very similar circumstances loose a BHP, myself being one of these people. I have discussed everything from ventilation, temps, quality of rodents, substrate( I use newspaper with my BHP's), water etc. etc. etc. The closest to a reason I have come across, was feeding on really hot days, though this is specious at best (I closely monitor my temps and on said day 35 degrees was the top temp we saw inside the enclosure). I have consulted with vets and breeders alike and the only concrete answer so far is without an autopsy its all guess work. I have been told that something wrong with the snake internally eg. leukaemia keeps being mentioned by those who have done an autopsy seems to be something that disturbingly keeps coming up.

Sorry for your loss, I hope someone can shed some light, however without an autopsy I think we are only going to be guessing.

 

[Riffherper]

Bhp's love it hot, look where they come from. This time of year I offer a basking spot in the high thirties, hot end of low thirties and cool side of 27-28 degrees. I often catch mine basking in the high thirties after a meal. The temps would have to be pretty extreme to kill a Bhp IMO.

 

[phatty]

living in the doo my self I dont think it has been too hot i don't have any heat etc i just use ambient temps for my snakes. i think you might find it is some think internal eg kidneys tumor ect

 

[Snowman]

Bhp's love it hot, look where they come from. This time of year I offer a basking spot in the high thirties, hot end of low thirties and cool side of 27-28 degrees. I often catch mine basking in the high thirties after a meal. The temps would have to be pretty extreme to kill a Bhp IMO.

True and false... They do come from warm areas of Australia. My very limited experience finding wild BHPs though is that they shelter from the heat in sand burrows and termite mounds. These places keep a very insulated and constant temp. Even when it's in the 40's they will be high 20's low thirties. I've found them to move around mostly after dark. Again when days were in the 40's they came out much later like after 11pm. Days in the low 30's I found them at dusk onwards.... My opinion is they cant handle high temps and often they will get a meal and retreat to the stable cooler temps of their hides in the ground or in termite mounds.

 

[Drazzy]

Sorry About your loss rum.pig

Reading your thread, I would like to add that.

Some people argue that fluoride and chlorine in tap water is bad for all reptiles; misting and drinking water. I personally use tap water (but wouldnt drink it myself as flouride contributes to damaging your mental health), for reptiles how ever the effects of fluoride and chlorine would only be seen over a long period of time such as 5-7 years, arguable the long term detrimental effects would be hard to trace.

In your case it sounds like it is highly probable it is the substrate, and I would not trust Pet shops some will tell you all sorts of fiction to obtain a sale.

Maybe try astro-turf (with short grass blades so the snake cant accidentally eat it) if you want it to look decorative

but no doubt news paper is the best and free!


Best way to get over the pain of losing a pet is get a new one