Are reptiles the dodgiest industry out there for genuine consumers?

[Striker]

Just on the back of another post I read here about a very reputable reptile trader (at least reputable at some stage in the past) failing to reply to customers or update any of their online info, I see the opportunity to raise a question (for no reason other than discussions sake). Do others here see the Australian reptile trade as one of the most frustrating, shonky industries one could ever involve themselves in?

Years of observation and personal experience lead me to ask this question. I have personally been ripped off by traders more than once. I was one of the many who lost money to one of the boutique enclosure builders that started a business and shut it down after robbing enough people of their money without supplying a product. Many people and reptile companies fail to maintain their websites, display false advertising, and fail to return phone calls and emails to genuine enquiries. We often see stories on the APS forum about questionable husbandry practices within pet shops and private hobbyist collections, and hear story after story of bad experiences for consumers.

This to me is the most frustrating aspect of this hobby. The majority of us are here for one reason. We love reptiles and are passionate about the hobby. Why does it seem that for each of us who has a genuine reason for being involved in the hobby, there are many more in the hobby who are at least, flaky and disorganised, and at worst, dishonest, and in many cases, outright criminals? This aspect makes our hobby SO much harder and more frustrating than it needs to be.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ekans]

I hate to say it but the industry is only as dodgy as you make it.

Not receiving calls doesn't mean you have lost anything. Giving money to anyone is a big risk in any industry.

Don't pay money upfront when it comes to reptiles, either save and pay cash or view the animal in person and get a receipt for your deposit.

When it comes to enclosures making your own can be cheaper or go to a well established maker and try and get a receipt for any money you pay for it.

I'm not having a go, this sort of stuff happens in every industry.

 

[sevrum]

Just on the back of another post I read here about a very reputable reptile trader (at least reputable at some stage in the past) failing to reply to customers or update any of their online info, I see the opportunity to raise a question (for no reason other than discussions sake). Do others here see the Australian reptile trade as one of the most frustrating, shonky industries one could ever involve themselves in?

Years of observation and personal experience lead me to ask this question. I have personally been ripped off by traders more than once. I was one of the many who lost money to one of the boutique enclosure builders that started a business and shut it down after robbing enough people of their money without supplying a product. Many people and reptile companies fail to maintain their websites, display false advertising, and fail to return phone calls and emails to genuine enquiries. We often see stories on the APS forum about questionable husbandry practices within pet shops and private hobbyist collections, and hear story after story of bad experiences for consumers.

This to me is the most frustrating aspect of this hobby. The majority of us are here for one reason. We love reptiles and are passionate about the hobby. Why does it seem that for each of us who has a genuine reason for being involved in the hobby, there are many more in the hobby who are at least, flaky and disorganised, and at worst, dishonest, and in many cases, outright criminals? This aspect makes our hobby SO much harder and more frustrating than it needs to be.

Just my thoughts.

I have been keeping reptiles for 12 years and have learned the hard way TRUST NO ONE when dealing with reptiles and reptile related purchases. Yes there are plenty of dodgy people in the reptile game.......

 

[Striker]

I hate to say it but the industry is only as dodgy as you make it.

Not receiving calls doesn't mean you have lost anything. Giving money to anyone is a big risk in any industry.

I'm not having a go, this sort of stuff happens in every industry.

yes it does. Of course. But no-where near as much as it seems to occur in this industry. There would be a post on this site almost daily about someone getting stuffed around, or coming across poor business standards or even illegal activities in relation to reptiles.

It is very much the norm in the reptile hobby, and I think it's a shame given we are simply trying to pursue our interests in reptiles. The regulatory bodies and systems are tough enough without having to deal with crooks and hopeless businessmen as well. It's off-putting for the whole hobby.

 

[Ekans]

A business going quiet isn't dodgy as long as no one has lost money in the process (they are the ones losing money lol) especially if the person is more of a hobbyist, they still love the reptiles but possibly don't have the drive to make money

How many bad transactions are made by bad decisions? Morphs and unique animals can cloud a person's judgment.

I haven't been put off buying a new reptile even though I know full well there are unscrupulous people. I still look forward to my next transaction with a breeder because I'm going to choose wisely and not let that pretty python cloud my judgment lol

Like I said if people made a better choice or covered their arses we wouldn't have daily posts about people being scammed.

 

[Wally]

A little hard to quantify I would've thought.

As with all aspects of life though, if there's a dollar to be ripped off, there's someone willing to do it. Sadly.

 

[Virides]

Years of observation and personal experience lead me to ask this question. I have personally been ripped off by traders more than once. I was one of the many who lost money to one of the boutique enclosure builders that started a business and shut it down after robbing enough people of their money without supplying a product. Many people and reptile companies fail to maintain their websites, display false advertising, and fail to return phone calls and emails to genuine enquiries. We often see stories on the APS forum about questionable husbandry practices within pet shops and private hobbyist collections, and hear story after story of bad experiences for consumers.

Not everyone is bad

** Don't take the following as us biting back, just proud of our reputation in the industry **

At Virides (www.virides.com.au) we say what we will do and we do it. If there is ever a delay we tell whoever it affects the most - be it a single consumer or a group. Even products we don't do anymore, we let everyone who has purchased it know that we have stopped with the product but will continue to support them as best we can (example is our Self-closing sliding glass track). We never falsely advertise as this goes against our ethics (not just in business). If we miss a call, we call back and if anyone contacts us in any way we are onto it almost immediately.

As for our website, we are currently in the process of updating not just a product or two but also how it looks, how it can help the consumer choose their products and generally delivering a better online shopping experience. Think upon initial investment of the website we have spent possibly 3x that in future development.

Generally we aren't here to make a quick buck, we are serious about what we do and we do things seriously.

 

[CrazyNut]

Don't take this the wrong way but if you really finding it so frustrating and think everyone is bad and untrustworthy, why don't you do what others have done in the past and leave? When you keep breed and love reptiles you see that there are great people out there but you also have to accept the fact that there are those who want to rip you off and take every cent they can. I love going to private breeders to buy a new animal and chatting with someone who shares an interests (sometimes you eve become mates in the hobby). If you are concerned when buying reptiles from a commercial shop, do your homework and have a look at what other people think, chance are you are not the first person to buy something from a new shop. And as others have said, try not to do deposits etc and always get a receipt.

 

[Ramsayi]

There are many more dodgy potential buyers wanting to come over to case your joint,picture collectors,tyre kickers,time wasters etc then there are dodgy sellers.

There are also a lot of genuinely decent people in this hobby, but by far and away sellers have a harder time of it than buyers do given that it isn't difficult to ask around about a sellers reputation.The same however can't be said about potential buyers.

 

[arevenant]

I'd say the drug trade is far more dodgy. It's a legitimate industry, and there are genuine consumers, buyers and sellers involved.
So no, I do not.

 

[ThePup]

yes it does. Of course. But no-where near as much as it seems to occur in this industry.

This might well be due to Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, or the "frequency illusion". Basically the same reason that when you buy a new car, you suddenly see more of them driving about, or you buy a particular tie, and all of a sudden every 3rd guy seems to be wearing one, or a similar one.

Once your attention is drawn to something, then all of a sudden you notice it more. The industry as a whole is no more or less dodgy than the next, but because you're actually involved in it and have been stung, it seems more common than it actually is.

 

[Redemption]

I was reading through a big breeders facebook post and he was saying that a certain morph of reptile when bred together are a lethal combo, and all the matings resulted in mostly deaths or no results. He seemed quite annoyed that people sold this morph at high prices (the morph has been around for years, but not many were produced) and argued with the original breeder of this morph about it. If you breed the super form to a het, you get results But you cant breed the super forms together. So the breeder was getting upset that they had defects, but now he breeds them and sells them at a high price. Very Dodgy and hypocritical.These are not pythons by the way.

 

[Ramsayi]

I was reading through a big breeders facebook post and he was saying that a certain morph of reptile when bred together are a lethal combo, and all the matings resulted in mostly deaths or no results. He seemed quite annoyed that people sold this morph at high prices (the morph has been around for years, but not many were produced) and argued with the original breeder of this morph about it. If you breed the super form to a het, you get results But you cant breed the super forms together. So the breeder was getting upset that they had defects, but now he breeds them and sells them at a high price. Very Dodgy and hypocritical.These are not pythons by the way.

If you are referring to Jags then well before they were smuggled into this country it was well known that jag to jag was a lethal combo.It was also widely known that they come with defects as they have been bred for many years overseas so it was common knowledge.People buying into them and then crying about the problems is pretty pathetic really.

 

[Redemption]

If you are referring to Jags then well before they were smuggled into this country it was well known that jag to jag was a lethal combo.It was also widely known that they come with defects as they have been bred for many years overseas so it was common knowledge.People buying into them and then crying about the problems is pretty pathetic really.

No, the reptiles I am talking about with the defects aren't snakes.

 

[Striker]

No, the reptiles I am talking about with the defects aren't snakes.

And it's these sorts of stories that support my original post. I think we're really up against it in the reptile industry. And I don't think it's comparable to other industries despite what others have said here. Obviously there are some honest reputable reptile/accessories traders out there (thanks Virides) but generally we as a consumer have our work cut out for us figuring out who we can trust, because sadly, more often than not, the traders are crooks.

 

[Ramsayi]

And it's these sorts of stories that support my original post. I think we're really up against it in the reptile industry. And I don't think it's comparable to other industries despite what others have said here. Obviously there are some honest reputable reptile/accessories traders out there (thanks Virides) but generally we as a consumer have our work cut out for us figuring out who we can trust, because sadly, more often than not, the traders are crooks.

More often than not? That is absolute bollocks.I've been in this game for a very long time now and have never been burned.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

There are bad people in every walk of life. Would you buy a car from a mate of a mate who hasn't got all the paperwork but assures you everything is legit?
Buy from reputable sources you trust, if a deal sounds like its too good to be true it normally is so don't get involved.
If you have any concerns about a deal that just doesn't sound right or you can't verify information from a source you trust.......just walk away from it.

 

[Smurf]

Every industry has a level of dodgy, but you don't see it until you are involved in some way. Just look at all the news stories about puppy farms or recent stories relating to greyhound racing. It's just iimportant to remember there is scum in all walks of life, but there are also a lot of genuine and passionate people too.

 

[arevenant]

If you don't like it, get out. Pretty simple.

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

Not everyone is dodgy. If you have been in the hobby for 12 years you would know this. You just need to build relationships with people. I had a mate give me a zebra without an upfront dollar from my pocket ( To my surprise) but this shows there are good people in the hobby. I got full payment to him within the week.