Bitten by something help!

[Stompa]

Hi tonight when going through some old bags I noticed I had a stinging itch on my finger I don't know what bit me spider or insect don't want to call 000 for a non deadly bug.. Any ideas what causes this bite mark?
I added a picture may be a little hard to see.

 

[Jimie]

looks like a spider bite to me I can see 2 puncture wounds i'd keep an eye on it and if the redness travels or if you have any symptoms (dizziness,nausea,) i'd go to the hospital and seek medical advice

 

[Bluetongue1]

From the size and vertical entry it looks like a spider bite. The only two that would be of concern are Funnel Web or Red-back. You would know by now if it were Funnel Web as the symptoms are quite debilitating. Red-back venom causes initial localisaed pain which can be alleviated using ice packs. If the pain increases and becomes more generalised, then you need to go the nearest hospital or medical centre where they will assess you as to whether you require antivenom. Sweating of the bitten limb is a clear indicator of a Red-back bite and the need to seek medical assessment.

Blue

 

[tickerbox]

Hey Stompa,
Those two punctures actually look quite far apart as far as most house (and bag/box dwelling type) spiders are concerned. It certainly does look like a spider bite though. I believe that a Redback bite would have puncture wounds far closer together than the ones shown on your finger, unless it was an enormous specimen. Highly doubt it. Definitely not a funnel web for several reasons... bags are not moist enough for a funnel web to dwell in without dehydrating rapidly (unless they contain soil). Your "sting/itch" sensation would feel more like "I've been burnt with a red hot ember". Possibly a large black house spider, even a White Tailed... though I hope not for your sake :? Go and seek medical attention if there are any further ruptures to your skin around the area of the bite, or if as Blue advised, the symptoms become more generalised rather than just localised to your finger. All the best mate!

 

[hulloosenator]

well ......i reckon 000 would be a better place to get advice than jumping onto this website mate......lol I know there are heaps of experts here , but ....geeeez..... go to a medical website at the least

 

[tahnia666]

Hey [MENTION=36760]Stompa[/MENTION] mate I hate to say it but that looks pretty much the same as my hand when a whitetail bit me, sounds the same too.
Don't stress too much, apparently a lot of people get bitten by whitetails and only know it if there's a reaction which apparently isn't actually all that common?
I had no reaction and the only reason I knew it was a whitetail was cause I saw it bite me. But my mum had a nasty reaction to one.
Keep an eye on it!!!!

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Boiga]

You would know by now if it were Funnel Web as the symptoms are quite debilitating.
Blue

I was bitten by a funnel web about two years ago and the symptoms were quite minor. I went to the hospital and released myself within the hour. I got a slight headache for the night and for a few days after my muscles were quite tender.

To the O.P best thing to do is wrap it and call an ambulance.

 

[Bluetongue1]

I must agree with Boiga. Sounds like you were very fortunate in not being seriously envenomed. Of course the amount of venom delivered varies with factors like the level of agitation of the spider, how long it is since it has eaten and how frequently, access to the bite site (includes clothing) and where it bites you.

Initial symptoms from substantial Funnel Web envenomation include local pain, mouth numbness, vomiting, abdominal pain, sweating and salivation, and establish within a matter of minutes. This is why I said he would have known if he had been bitten by a Funnel Web. Suspected Funnel Web bites should be immediately treated the same as for a venomous snake bite – pressure bandage, immobilisation and medical attention. If someone cannot drive you, get an ambulance. For that matter, it is prudent to treat any unknown bite the same way. You might want someone to grab you a good book as the medical staff will likely keep you under observation for several hours to check whether the signs and symptoms intensify or spread.

Blue

 

[mungus]

No reply by Stompa........
might gave been a renegade spider who
thought his signature name was a threat ))

 

[Karnyge]

000 would be a waste of their time, if it's not life threatening, drive to the nearest ED for evaluation, unless you have debilitating /life threatening symptoms it wouldn't be worth the ambo bill, you don't call 000 for information you call them for immediate assistance from emergency services.

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[andynic07]

000 would be a waste of their time, if it's not life threatening, drive to the nearest ED for evaluation, unless you have debilitating /life threatening symptoms it wouldn't be worth the ambo bill, you don't call 000 for information you call them for immediate assistance from emergency services.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

Anaphylaxis can set in pretty fast and must be treated as a medical emergency , I do see your point about just asking for advice though. A hospital or after-hours doctors will give you the advice that you need but if any signs of a reaction I would be calling 000.

 

[Stompa]

Yeah, it was all good. I didn't bother going to the hospital nor doctors...it was okay though, it didn't get any worse than what it was and i didn't get sick or anything. Well im alive...

 

[Klaery]

Glad to hear you are fine Stompa

Initial symptoms from substantial Funnel Web envenomation include local pain, mouth numbness, vomiting, abdominal pain, sweating and salivation, and establish within a matter of minutes. This is why I said he would have known if he had been bitten by a Funnel Web. Suspected Funnel Web bites should be immediately treated the same as for a venomous snake bite – pressure bandage, immobilisation and medical attention. If someone cannot drive you, get an ambulance. For that matter, it is prudent to treat any unknown bite the same way. You might want someone to grab you a good book as the medical staff will likely keep you under observation for several hours to check whether the signs and symptoms intensify or spread.

Blue

Hi Blue,
I assume you know this already if you are handing out such advice but funnel-webs ain't funnel-webs. There are many species of funnel-web that verge on harmless compared to Atrax robustus, and others that are much more dangerous. I don't know where Boiga or OP are located but plenty of funnel-webs can give minor symptoms.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Hi Klaery,
I am not entirely sure what your comment refers to but I assume it is in reference to the two dozen or so Hadronyche species that are additional to the species which have are recorded as having caused medically significant envenomation.

I doubt it was in reference to the fact that the webs of these spiders are seldom ever funnel shaped - being more a simple sock or purse shape, often with two entry forming a Y end to the purse. The supposed funnel is a collection of supporting strands attached to whatever is available to ensure that the entry stays open. On rare occasions this might form a semblance of a funnel entry but there is normally no regularity in terms of their arrangement (direction & length). These supporting strands double as “trip lines” to alert the occupant of passing prey.

While one would not expect a funnel web to be resident in a non-humid area (due to their primitive respiratory system lacking trachea and spiracle) summer and autumn are when the males get the wander lust (they get the lust first and then wander) to search for a mate. This often results in them being transient visitors in places where they would not be able to survive on an extended basis.


IMPORTANT
I have severe misgivings about my first-up response to the OP’s enquiry. The reason is simple. By answering in the manner in which I did, it is condoning and encouraging other to use the forum as a means of providing a medical prognosis for an unknown envenomation. That is entirely unacceptable for a number of good reasons.

While I appeased my conscience by saying any unknown bite should be wrapped, immobilised and get yourself taken to medical assistance. At the same time I know that is not practical advice for a lot of people and so it won’t be followed. The penny dropped today when I read a post that corrected a non-forum user who referred to “poisonous snakes”. The post distinguished venom and poisons which made me remember that most people think of envenomation as a form of poisoning and that the Poisons Information Centre is probably the correct place to access information about bites.

Here is an extract from the national website...

Poisons Information Centre - 24 Hour Telephone Advice
In Australia there are four Poison Information Centres operating - in Queensland, New South Wales, Western Australia and Victoria. Each centre has trained staff to provide telephone consultation to medical professionals and the general public in cases of acute and chronic poisonings - 24 hours a day.

The Australian Poison Information Centres provide toxicological advice on the management of exposures to prescription and non-prescription pharmaceuticals, household and industrial chemicals, plants, animal envenomation, pesticides and other agricultural products.


A point of Clarification: If you phone "000" (triple zero) they will ask you which emergency service you need - Police,Fire or Ambulance?

Blue

 

[Klaery]

Hey Blue,
Very much like what you added about calling 000 and the poisons information centre. Asking for help on a forum in a (possible) emergency is beyond silly.

Hi Klaery,
I am not entirely sure what your comment refers to but I assume it is in reference to the two dozen or so Hadronyche species that are additional to the species which have are recorded as having caused medically significant envenomation.

I doubt it was in reference to the fact that the webs of these spiders are seldom ever funnel shaped - being more a simple sock or purse shape, often with two entry forming a Y end to the purse. The supposed funnel is a collection of supporting strands attached to whatever is available to ensure that the entry stays open. On rare occasions this might form a semblance of a funnel entry but there is normally no regularity in terms of their arrangement (direction & length). These supporting strands double as “trip lines” to alert the occupant of passing prey.

While one would not expect a funnel web to be resident in a non-humid area (due to their primitive respiratory system lacking trachea and spiracle) summer and autumn are when the males get the wander lust (they get the lust first and then wander) to search for a mate. This often results in them being transient visitors in places where they would not be able to survive on an extended basis.

Well not that many described yet, but there will be. And yes I am refering to Hadronyche, all are known as funnelwebs. A few Hadronoche are definately medically significant (wasn't sure if you ment all Hadronyche were not or just most) as both formidabilis and cerberea are considered more dangerous than robustus (at least they were when I last did work with them) and I know that there are formidabilis envenimations on record. In both species the females are also just as venomous as the males, unlike robustus. Other members are considered to not be medically significant (such as sp.10 that I did some work with).

The entrances are often/always funnel shaped and yep usually two, at least in the ground dwelling species.

Hope this doesn't come off as disrespectful Blue as you definately do your research before replying. We just may as well have all the info up here as there isn't heaps on the web. Most people can not tell the difference between a dangerous funnel-web and one that probably isn't and knowing the difference between Atrax and Hadronyche doesn't tell you it isn't dangerous. Always call 000!

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thanks Klaery.
I based my numbers on the following...
A Revision of the Australian Funnel-web Spiders (Hexathelidae: Atracinae) by Michael R. Gray.
Records of the Australian Museum (2010) Vol. 62: 285–392. ISSN 0067-1975 doi:10.3853/j.0067-1975.62.2010.1556.
Abstract. The Australian funnel-web spiders of the subfamily Atracinae are revised. The Atracinae are divided into three genera—Atrax O.P.-Cambridge with three species (two new), Hadronyche L. Koch with 31 species (18 new), and Illawarra n.gen. with one new species.

From my personal experience with coming across a substantial number of Atrax robustus webs, while the entrance is slightly expanded and there is a network of supporting web lines, the throat of the silken sock is flattened rather than round. Also the supporting web lines are usually anything but even in length, direction or level. The common name of Wish-bone Spiders is a more accurate as a descriptor in my opinion but still does not nail it. With Hadronyche species I only know what I have read.


Blue

 

[Klaery]

Thanks Klaery.
I based my numbers on the following...
A Revision of the Australian Funnel-web Spiders (Hexathelidae: Atracinae) by Michael R. Gray.
Records of the Australian Museum (2010) Vol. 62: 285–392. ISSN 0067-1975 doi:10.3853/j.0067-1975.62.2010.1556.
Abstract. The Australian funnel-web spiders of the subfamily Atracinae are revised. The Atracinae are divided into three genera—Atrax O.P.-Cambridge with three species (two new), Hadronyche L. Koch with 31 species (18 new), and Illawarra n.gen. with one new species.

From my personal experience with coming across a substantial number of Atrax robustus webs, while the entrance is slightly expanded and there is a network of supporting web lines, the throat of the silken sock is flattened rather than round. Also the supporting web lines are usually anything but even in length, direction or level. The common name of Wish-bone Spiders is a more accurate as a descriptor in my opinion but still does not nail it. With Hadronyche species I only know what I have read.


Blue

Thanks for the reference! That is about the time I stopped playing with spiders so I never saw the paper published, I had thought it was YEARS off. I'll have to read it and see whatever happened to my old sp.10

I have some old pics and videos at home of Hadronyche entrances if you are interested. I'll have to have a look. There are Hadronyche cerberea within robustus range so if you are ever back there keep an eye out They are a tree dwelling species but I occationaly found formidabilis in the ground up here so wouldn't be surprised if they do the same down there (I see you are in Perth now so not likely I guess!).

Thanks for the chat Blue. Great to see and share this kind of info.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thanks for the offer. I am familiar with the Southern Tree Funnel-web by name only so I would be interested in viewing the pics and/or footage of webs. I intermittently get back to Sydney to visit family, so you never know...

I found dealing with A. robustus was enough of an adrenalin pump for me as a young fella. You can have chasing H. formidalis in the wild all to your to yourself. Lol.

Cheers,
Blue