Bluetongue Brother and Sister Mating?

[absinthe_616]

Hey guys.. i might be setting myself up for a lecture on imbreeding here... but my bluetongues just had babies and im wondering if it would be safe to keep a male and female and see if they will produce babies in two years time?

ive heard that the laws of genetic defects when mammals inbreed doesnt necessarily apply to reptiles

 

[percey39]

i think you will find a lot of people say its a no go with all animals, but there are a lot of people that do it with reptiles ( a lot of them wont admit it either ) i personally dont think it would be too much of a drama as both are obviously happy and healthy. its up to you

 

[mouse_has_faith]

absinthe, in-breeding is not good in all animals, from humans to bluetongues. It's not like there is a dearth of bluetongues around, so why not just keep 1 baby, sell all the others and use the money from the sale to buy another, un-related bluetongue.

ive heard that the laws of genetic defects when mammals inbreed doesnt necessarily apply to reptiles

Where did you hear that from? Reptiles are vertebrates like mammals and birds. There's no reason why they should be beyond the basic laws of genetics or biology, which teaches that inbreeding lessens genetic diversity, which leads to a variety of problems, e.g. lower immunity to disease, etc.
I've just asked my sister, who has a university degree in biology and a Masters in wildlife ecology and management, and she agrees with me that breeding related bluetongues isn't necessarily a smart idea, especially when you can just sell them and buy an un-related one with the profit.

 

[absinthe_616]

i read about it in one of the forums here, then found another article online here

Inbreeding Reptiles

anywho, that sounds like a good idea, but i dont know anyone else whose just had babies... ill have to look round...

 

[junglepython2]

It's should be fine absinthe as long as they are of good genetic stock.

 

[matt86]

absinthe, in-breeding is not good in all animals, from humans to bluetongues. It's not like there is a dearth of bluetongues around, so why not just keep 1 baby, sell all the others and use the money from the sale to buy another, un-related bluetongue.



Where did you hear that from? Reptiles are vertebrates like mammals and birds. There's no reason why they should be beyond the basic laws of genetics or biology, which teaches that inbreeding lessens genetic diversity, which leads to a variety of problems, e.g. lower immunity to disease, etc.
I've just asked my sister, who has a university degree in biology and a Masters in wildlife ecology and management, and she agrees with me that breeding related bluetongues isn't necessarily a smart idea, especially when you can just sell them and buy an un-related one with the profit.

Actually mouse_has_faith, reptiles do not suffer the same ill-effects from inbreeding as mammals do. Many colour/pattern morphs have been developed through careful line breeding, involving several generations of related offspring.

Certain lines are at least 5th generation related pairings, with no ill effects noted by this point in time. Overseas, particularly in the states, breeders have experimented with 10 or more generations, still with no effect.

Reptiles may be vertebrates, but they are vastly different from mammals and birds in more ways than can be mentioned.

 

[absinthe_616]

thanks for everyones input i ithnk i know what im going to do.

junglepython2, what do you mean by good genetic stock? sorry, still learning lol.

i dont know anything about the mum or dads history, they were given to me and a month later she gave birth! lol

 

[mouse_has_faith]

Actually mouse_has_faith, reptiles do not suffer the same ill-effects from inbreeding as mammals do. Many colour/pattern morphs have been developed through careful line breeding, involving several generations of related offspring.

Well, my only concern regards what kind of research has been done on these reptiles to ensure that there are no kind of alterations, that would not otherwise occur naturally, as a result of in-breeding. Breeding different colour morphs isn't an indicator that things are genetically ok with the animal. I question whether observation of their behaviour over 10 generations is long enough for undesirable effects to surface. Also, is observation an adequate determinant? How are their immune systems, their sperm count (cheetahs exhibit this, being a bit in-bred, yet seemingly appear fine), etc?

Anyway, I guess if people want to keep them solely as pets, it may not be so bad, but in this particular case it just seems unecessary to breed brothers and sisters when bluetongues are a dime a dozen.

 

[GSXR_Boy]

Well, my only concern regards what kind of research has been done on these reptiles to ensure that there are no kind of alterations, that would not otherwise occur naturally, as a result of in-breeding.

They let a few brown trees go in Guam lol

 

[naledge]

I'd do it for that generation, but I wouldn't get their future offspring to mate, there wouldn't be much harm in doing it just with the two you're holding back.

 

[junglepython2]

thanks for everyones input i ithnk i know what im going to do.

junglepython2, what do you mean by good genetic stock? sorry, still learning lol.

i dont know anything about the mum or dads history, they were given to me and a month later she gave birth! lol

Well a bit hard with no history, but just make sure the parents appear healthy with no obvious disorders.

 

[Rach85]

I've heard of people doing it, isn't that one reason why some people get a male and female from the same clutch? Not sure if I'd do it personally ... but each to their own, plus I know nothing about it..

 

[jinin]

I heard you can inbreed 3 generations of reptiles, then they will start having birth defects, bent tails, missing limbs.etc

 

[matt86]

It's definitely much longer than 3 generations without obvious issues.

Unfortunately, as with a lot of the other husbandry information available on reptiles, things only surface through trial and error... As I said, in the States, people have bred up to 10 generations of related offspring, without any obvious, physical signs manifesting...

I think where possible, it's great to have two specimens from different blood lines... But if you look at Albino carpets as an example... They were all derived at some point from the original bloodline, Blondie... Even though normal Darwins have been bred in, and hets created, and those bred with other hets to create other Albinos, and those bred with other Albinos etc... At the end of the day, they all share a common ancestry.

Only time, and increasing insight into the genetics of reptiles will let us know for sure.

 

[mouse_has_faith]

Only time, and increasing insight into the genetics of reptiles will let us know for sure.

Agreed. Observation of reptiles- even 10 generations- isn't enough to determine there aren't any kind of abnormalities that wouldn't otherwise occur in the wild. Cheetahs, though different from reptiles, have lived with some defects as a result of mild in-breeding for years, but no-one would think so from just looking at them. Proper research needs to be done by a third party without a staked interest in the matter.

In absinthe's case it just seems uncessary, since bluetongues are easily bought and sold.

 

[absinthe_616]

i was only asking because as a uni student, any money i can make off these little guys will help me out alot, and having to use that money as a source of buying another bluetongue wouldn't help lol.

ill probably just wait until they get sexed and buy another proven gender one.

 

[mouse_has_faith]

Well, I can sympathise with you about being a broke uni student.