Calico ? Coastal Carpet Python

[Kam333]

I have had a few questions and a lot of requests for pics, so took a few today while her new enclosure is being prepped.
So is it a true Calico? well dunno! She has a hypo type of thing going on (very freaky eyes) but it is unsure as to if it is part of the make up of the calico aspects. There appears to be white under all her scales so after a feed it becomes extremely prominent. The pattern from the belly is straight white and tends to go to white with black and brown flecking slowly forming more of a (fragmented) pattern as it reaches the back. The grandmother had a lot more white throughout the body. So what is it that makes me think she is Calico? . . . There is nothing that describes all that is going on with her pattern any better than the broad definition with Calico's, although she does have a marbled look. All going well I will be breeding her this season with the Anery Coastal, should have some interesting results

 

[Ezmay]

beautiful!!!! she is amazing

 

[waruikazi]

I stopped posting in morph threads a long time ago when OP's didn't like the answers i gave them. Fortunately the craze of naming any and every pattern died away somewhat over the last couple years.

To enter your discussion about whether it is a calico or not. To me there is absolutely nothing calico about that snake in comparison to any other reptile morph that has been defined as calico. If you can prove out whatever you think is different about it, then yeah name the morph calico and then it will be a calico. That is if it is a morph/mutation that can be inherited in a predictable way. And just to throw a spanner in the works, a few years ago that snake would have been called a hypo and god help anyone who disagreed because hypo just means reduced black apparently.

Personally i would call that snake nothing more than a nice coastal. Which it is, absolutely, if that is what you are into. Let the animal's quality or genetics speak for itself, they don't need names.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Gordon is spot on...

Kam, ive seen you post a few times now and you fail to understand that a genetic trait is just that.
GENETIC and needs to be proven. Not just label a python because you think its looks like a genetic morph.
The pics you posted just look like a normal coastal.
And whats this with a anery coastal. ??
Just because because a coastal is grey coloured does not mean its anery or axanthic.
You actually need to prove the mode of inheritance. Thus proving the trait is genetic.

Unless you have proof and photos showing what your talking about and then confirming the mode of inheritance etc .

Cheers
Roger

 

[Frozenmouse]

Amen

 

[Origamislice]

the best way to check if this a genetic trait is to breed her with a normal looking carpet, if the offspring look like that then it could be either dominent or co-dominent. if this happens then a way to check wether if it's co-dom. is to breed the offspring that look like that with each other, if 25% are normal 50% are like that and 25% look completly different then it's co-dominent...

if all the offspring look normal then it could be recesive, if this happens breed the offspring together and then if some of these offspring turn out like that then it's recesive.

if the offspring look like a blend between the two parents then it's not genetic (there is no particular gene responsible).

this entire process will probably take 4-5 years at a minimum but is the only way to prove if its genetic.

 

[Wrightpython]

Just name it what you like and charge what you like when you breed. Name it something exotic like reduced pattern hypo xanthic calico albinohet coastal and charge s@#t loads for the hatchies. But prove it first breed for multiple gens and show results to prove its genetic.

 

[hugsta]

I have bred a number of coastals that look the same as the one pictured, all have turned out to be beautiful coastals, but just coastals.

Roger summed it up nicely, you need to proove the mode of inheritence before you can slap a name on it.

 

[Kam333]

Gordon is spot on...

Kam, ive seen you post a few times now and you fail to understand that a genetic trait is just that.
GENETIC and needs to be proven. Not just label a python because you think its looks like a genetic morph.
The pics you posted just look like a normal coastal.
And whats this with a anery coastal. ??
Just because because a coastal is grey coloured does not mean its anery or axanthic.
You actually need to prove the mode of inheritance. Thus proving the trait is genetic.

Unless you have proof and photos showing what your talking about and then confirming the mode of inheritance etc .

Cheers
Roger

Sure, just the response that I was expecting, there seems to be some very predictable behavior here. I have failed to understand nothing. Yes she does look a lot like a standard hypo and if I had not seen the grandmother I would have still thought there was something there. I struggled for 2 years to grasp what was going on with her pattern and having owned a few hypo's in the past I knew there was something so much more. i have done a substantial amount of study on the Calico gene and have seen it's extremes from the smallest amount of white on it's flanking to an almost white snake with flecks and broken pattern. Was I just looking at jumping on the Morph bandwagon or maybe I have had an interest in this field for a number of years with a lot of research (kept herps since I could walk, turn 40 this year). And while every one with an opinion is going to jump on here and proudly announce I am wrong with little insight as to the snakes history maybe I at least have given a bit of thought into this. I at no point claimed she was in fact a Calico I did say it was the closest thing I could use to describe her. She has a melanin reduction throughout with white stretching into her pattern and while not prominent it occurs across her body and as stated earlier freaky white eyes.
Anyone that sees her agrees there is something more than Hypo. As for inheritable I have seen her Grandmother and she was owned by a non morph collector but she had alot more white with small patches and flecking. I will be breeding her this year to see but as the Calico in most species is recessive it will be some time before we know for certain. As for the Anery this is available to another debate but no i did not call it that out of wishful thinking. For Morphs to be discovered we dont need till wait for the Europeans or the states discover it, what we need is to work together to pull our collective minds together and start to look at what we can discover with our natives. How many morphs will go (and prob has been) unnoticed because it didnt fit into the already defined labels that we have. How easy would it have been to overlook the zebra morph? How did Southern X discover the so called Caramel morph. . just looks like a Hypo. If you discovered a new morph would you recognise it? I have a lot to say on this subject but I will only have to repeat myself after the next lot of angry and condescending posts so Ill wait

 

[citrus]

Mate there alot of grey coastals around that aren't anery or axanthic and since larks proved his line out there are a few people now trying to claim they also have them. To me it looks like a nice coastal but until it's reproduced it's all speculation on what it is. You said we don't know the history of the animal so please tell us. How many snakes display the same trait in each clutch from each generation? Grandmothers sibs? Parents sibs and her sibs? Also did you get one of her brothers? If you did you should breed them back together and see what results you get.

 

[Kam333]

Mate there alot of grey coastals around that aren't anery or axanthic and since larks proved his line out there are few people now trying to claim they also have them. To me it looks like a nice coastal but until it's reproduced it's all speculation on what it is. You said we don't know the history of the animal so please tell us. How many snakes display the same trait in each clutch from generation

im at a loss to your jumping onto "what he said".and you did not make sense as no one said this is an axanthic nor have I heard no claims for Anery besides for my own (not in this thread). Go back read my previous post. Think, make sure what you have to say is credible. . . then type. Do not just repeat what you thought they said:facepalm:

 

[citrus]

I was commenting on why people are calling you out about the grey carpets you have that you said are anery but not provided any info or proof other then a photo of a grey coastal. Mate if you are trying to start a fight it won't be with me sorry

 

[jinjajoe]

Sure, just the response that I was expecting, there seems to be some very predictable behavior here. I have failed to understand nothing. Yes she does look a lot like a standard hypo and if I had not seen the grandmother I would have still thought there was something there. I struggled for 2 years to grasp what was going on with her pattern and having owned a few hypo's in the past I knew there was something so much more. i have done a substantial amount of study on the Calico gene and have seen it's extremes from the smallest amount of white on it's flanking to an almost white snake with flecks and broken pattern. Was I just looking at jumping on the Morph bandwagon or maybe I have had an interest in this field for a number of years with a lot of research (kept herps since I could walk, turn 40 this year). And while every one with an opinion is going to jump on here and proudly announce I am wrong with little insight as to the snakes history maybe I at least have given a bit of thought into this. I at no point claimed she was in fact a Calico I did say it was the closest thing I could use to describe her. She has a melanin reduction throughout with white stretching into her pattern and while not prominent it occurs across her body and as stated earlier freaky white eyes.
Anyone that sees her agrees there is something more than Hypo. As for inheritable I have seen her Grandmother and she was owned by a non morph collector but she had alot more white with small patches and flecking. I will be breeding her this year to see but as the Calico in most species is recessive it will be some time before we know for certain. As for the Anery this is available to another debate but no i did not call it that out of wishful thinking. For Morphs to be discovered we dont need till wait for the Europeans or the states discover it, what we need is to work together to pull our collective minds together and start to look at what we can discover with our natives. How many morphs will go (and prob has been) unnoticed because it didnt fit into the already defined labels that we have. How easy would it have been to overlook the zebra morph? How did Southern X discover the so called Caramel morph. . just looks like a Hypo. If you discovered a new morph would you recognise it? I have a lot to say on this subject but I will only have to repeat myself after the next lot of angry and condescending posts so Ill wait

you obviously never digested Jungle Freaks & Waruikazi initial posts....... it has nothing to do with what is happening overseas more just a basic protocol with breeding any kind of animal ie you have to prove the mode of inheritance over a couple or 3 generations at least before you label...... simple as...... do you have the parents ???????

 

[Kam333]

I was commenting on why people are calling you out about the grey carpets you have that you said are angry but not provided any info or proof other then a photo of a grey coastal. Mate if you are trying to start a fight it won't be with me sorry

No if I was starting a fight I would have told you straight - you and me at the shelter sheds after school, it's ON. No one besides roger commented on the Anery's and seeings as you pm'd me for more pics as you had "a few projects going" you should know that only 1 is partly grey and both have blue and aqua pigment (a common traight in Anery's. Any who i guess you wont be presenting the results of your projects for a while or are ya gonna do it safe . . . and just do Jags

you obviously never digested Jungle Freaks & Waruikazi initial posts....... it has nothing to do with what is happening overseas more just a basic protocol with breeding any kind of animal ie you have to prove the mode of inheritance over a couple or 3 generations at least before you label...... simple as...... do you have the parents ???????

Yup I did! And i responded with I didnt claim she was Calico. Instead of being a discussion leading to a conclusion based on peoples opinion on said discussion it became an instant "dismissal". I made mention that it would be some time to prove it and as I am not trying to make money from it I feel the response seemed a little light triggered. I acknowledge (as previous mentioned) that these things would need to be proven, this would also allow one to see how this trait (if there is one) might manifest itself in different animals giving a better understanding of what it is and how it can be defined.

 

[jinjajoe]

that is just the point...... name after the work is done not before as after the work is done you'll probably find your initial name is not accurate anyway.......

I simply see a mediocre hypo.......

this reminds me of that banana pied BHP thread......

 

[Kam333]

that is just the point...... name after the work is done not before as after the work is done you'll probably find your initial name is not accurate anyway.......
......

hence the title Calico ? .

Yes my first name might be way off, like seems to be acceptable elsewhere is to speculate and then see if it proves out otherwise we would just be waiting on someone to tell us what it is. I would like to move forward in the morph area so personally I am interested to see and discuss new "possible" morphs. So maybe instead of getting upset as soon as someone doesn't follow scientific protocol (and yes obviously I knew I hadnt. . ) if it isn't proven try rational discussion and possibly speculate if it is an unknown. . . .did I mention the threads title "Calico?

 

[waruikazi]

No one has said that it isn't some kind of morph. Roger and Hugstas' posts didn't read angry or condascending to me and that certaintly wasn't the tone of my post. Your response is the exact reason alot of people no longer comment in threads like this, you have already decided what you want to hear and you have become defensive when you didn't hear it.

You did ask the question if we thought the snake was calico. All the evidence you have given us is a few pictures of a young snake and an anecdote that the grandmother looks the same (which is hardly suprising, most snakes do look something like one of the parents). But based on the looks of that snake the three of us think that it isn't calico, looks nothing like a calico and needs to be proven out before you can claim it to be any kind of morph. Once/if you prove it you can call it whatever you want.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by naming it anything. It is a great looking coastal, that speaks for itself. Why would it need a label? Especially when it hasn't been proven?

Sure, just the response that I was expecting, there seems to be some very predictable behavior here. I have failed to understand nothing. Yes she does look a lot like a standard hypo and if I had not seen the grandmother I would have still thought there was something there. I struggled for 2 years to grasp what was going on with her pattern and having owned a few hypo's in the past I knew there was something so much more. i have done a substantial amount of study on the Calico gene and have seen it's extremes from the smallest amount of white on it's flanking to an almost white snake with flecks and broken pattern. Was I just looking at jumping on the Morph bandwagon or maybe I have had an interest in this field for a number of years with a lot of research (kept herps since I could walk, turn 40 this year). And while every one with an opinion is going to jump on here and proudly announce I am wrong with little insight as to the snakes history maybe I at least have given a bit of thought into this. I at no point claimed she was in fact a Calico I did say it was the closest thing I could use to describe her. She has a melanin reduction throughout with white stretching into her pattern and while not prominent it occurs across her body and as stated earlier freaky white eyes.
Anyone that sees her agrees there is something more than Hypo. As for inheritable I have seen her Grandmother and she was owned by a non morph collector but she had alot more white with small patches and flecking. I will be breeding her this year to see but as the Calico in most species is recessive it will be some time before we know for certain. As for the Anery this is available to another debate but no i did not call it that out of wishful thinking. For Morphs to be discovered we dont need till wait for the Europeans or the states discover it, what we need is to work together to pull our collective minds together and start to look at what we can discover with our natives. How many morphs will go (and prob has been) unnoticed because it didnt fit into the already defined labels that we have. How easy would it have been to overlook the zebra morph? How did Southern X discover the so called Caramel morph. . just looks like a Hypo. If you discovered a new morph would you recognise it? I have a lot to say on this subject but I will only have to repeat myself after the next lot of angry and condescending posts so Ill wait

 

[Kam333]

No one has said that it isn't some kind of morph. Roger and Hugstas' posts didn't read angry or condascending to me and that certaintly wasn't the tone of my post. Your response is the exact reason alot of people no longer comment in threads like this, you have already decided what you want to hear and you have become defensive when you didn't hear it.

You did ask the question if we thought the snake was calico. All the evidence you have given us is a few pictures of a young snake and an anecdote that the grandmother looks the same (which is hardly suprising, most snakes do look something like one of the parents). But based on the looks of that snake the three of us think that it isn't calico, looks nothing like a calico and needs to be proven out before you can claim it to be any kind of morph. Once/if you prove it you can call it whatever you want.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by naming it anything. It is a great looking coastal, that speaks for itself. Why would it need a label? Especially when it hasn't been proven?

I must clarify that I was not refering to Roger or Hugstas' posts when I made mention of angry and condescending posts that was in reference to the direction these threads go in. Peoples opinions are more than welcome assuming that I am saying one thing when I was clearly saying "I dunno" and responding on the assumption is not conducive to growth.

All I wanted was to have a discussion and hear other people assumptions based on there explained reasoning.

As for a Label, If you have an idea what you might think it is then you have an idea what you are working with and what is the best course of action. i doubt it is a Calico in the classic sense but I have seen a couple of retics that looked similar and were labeled Calico. otherwise I am happy to call it smiley.

 

[waruikazi]

I must clarify that I was not refering to Roger or Hugstas' posts when I made mention of angry and condescending posts that was in reference to the direction these threads go in. Peoples opinions are more than welcome assuming that I am saying one thing when I was clearly saying "I dunno" and responding on the assumption is not conducive to growth.

All I wanted was to have a discussion and hear other people assumptions based on there explained reasoning.

As for a Label, If you have an idea what you might think it is then you have an idea what you are working with and what is the best course of action. i doubt it is a Calico in the classic sense but I have seen a couple of retics that looked similar and were labeled Calico. otherwise I am happy to call it smiley.

If you are going to name it then name it something that it resembles, otherwise you are opening yourself up for criticism. But names really don't define an animal, especially now that you can just show people pictures of the animals you think are interesting.

 

[Kam333]

If you are going to name it then name it something that it resembles, otherwise you are opening yourself up for criticism. But names really don't define an animal, especially now that you can just show people pictures of the animals you think are interesting.

Calico was chosen not because I was looking for a name but because I saw pre mentioned Retics that had the same look to their pattern.
I guess the final point is I'm up for discussion on what it might be, what I think it might be and what might be available. If anyone wants to discuss this or show what they have cool. But please read what I have written previously so we dont get caught on the merry go round arguments that destroy the learning process