Cannibal Rats

[junglejudd]

Hi i have a rat problem, My adult rats keep eating each others young. i have previously separated the mothers and their young from the rest of the colony and had success but it's not only a pain im running out of room quite quickly. I have seen breeders that keep them all in the one enclosure and had good results but every time i have tried all the bubs get eaten, i have breeding boxes in the enclosure and still no good, can you please give me some ideas Thanx..

 

[beeman]

What are you feeding, The 2 main things for this problem is stress and lack of the right diet

 

[cris]

Could be nutritional problems, stress or bad rats. There is no need to seperate rats when breeding, unless you want to give the female a rest from breeding.

 

[junglejudd]

Just the run of the mill guinea pig mix from the local pet store, sometimes grain and vege scraps

 

[beeman]

that diet will be causing a lot of your problems, They need 18-20% animal protien
in thier diet which is what is in all good rodent pellets

 

[cris]

Thats probably the problem, rats are omnivours and need more protein.

 

[junglejudd]

Ok Thanks for the help

 

[Surfcop24]

Jungejudd... Yeah I agree with the others...

I to had the same problem with my Rats...

They were fed on Biomare, Mixed grains and Vege/fruit scraps... And were eating the babies for protein....

Adding Dry dog food to their food, has reduced (almost stopped) the eating...

 

[jack]

i have had a couple of cannibals over the years, more so in mice than rats. as soon as i identify the culprit it becomes snake food.

 

[wokka]

Once they are eating babies its hard to stop them. Start again with new breeders and a proper diet. Guinea pigs are herbivores

 

[Kristy_07]

Perhaps Sdaji could comment on this if he's listening - I'm sure he'd know, as well.

I've heard feeding protein during pregnancy and nursing is good, too. Feed them chicken frames when they're preggers.

 

[PicklePants]

i buy a rat and mouse mix from the market and when i get it home i add dry dog pellets and some bird seed. this is the staple of their diet, but they also get any veggie scraps and leftovers from each meal, a bit of rice if we've cooked it, fruit on a regular basis and as a treat they get woodies or mealworms.

i used to have trouble with one rat in particular canibalising her own young. once i played around with their food and started adding the dog food, she stopped.

there is no harm in using the guinea pig mix if you add something with protein in it (eg. dry dog food) or supplement their diet with insects. if you have a large family of breeders, i'd go with the dog food option. homebrand stuff from the supermarket is fine, and cheaper than buying containers of bugs from the pet shop.

 

[soundfix]

Been reading genetics ect in rats,-with some rats its not a food /hunger issue, at all, but rather some rats try to control their enviroment,by choosing who stays and who dies.I had a female rat that would only cull of other female newborns of her own.Natures way of controlling the numbers and if a rats perception is that there may be scarce food times ahead, they also eat young to lessen the food burden.
From what ive read, it seems to alot more enviromental and phsycological reasons, for mother rats eating their young at birth in general, than diet/hunger/nourishment.
Ive also had rats that will eat an arm or leg,whilst giving birth, and then leave the baby to just die, without consuming .Very odd to observe, although that rat, has been one of the better mothers ive had.
Just one more thing, the same rat i mentioned, when the pups were 3-4 weeks old and eating, she goes around the cage picking up all the rat pups faeces and eats it. She quickly spits it out when she grabs a piece of her own , but she honestly doesnt seem to mind. Anyone else noticed that with female rats?

 

[The Devil]

Not sure if I agree with the lack of protein thoughts. I've had the problem when commercial rodent pellets from Norco and these are the ones used by research labs. To me I usually see it with first time mothers and usually only the once.

It's interesting that some people say that after changing the food it stops happening. Has it stopped or has that one rat or two grown up a bit and know how to look after their babies.

The lack of animal protein has been mentioned, also not sure about that. Why does it have to be animal protein and not vegetable protein. No doubt in the wild rats and mice will eat dead small animals but the majority of their diet consists of grasses and grains. I've seen a few wild rat nests and can't recall seeing any small animal bones around.

I do remember seeing thousands of rats and mice around gain storage sheds back when grain was bagged for transport.

 

[redbellybite]

devil ,when I had both mice and rats ..the mice were more into seeds and grains and plant type of stuff..our rats although would eat plant products ,loved getting worms ,insects, meal worms and dog/cat biscuits...our mice didnt .

 

[Jonno from ERD]

You don't need to feed them anything but a quality, complete rodent pellet...anything else is pointless. It is important to make sure the pellets you are using aren't designed as a supplement - they must be a "complete diet". I have seen a colony of 275 pairs of well managed rats consistently produce between 2800 and 3500 weaners a month. Most colonies struggle to produce half that with twice as many breeders - invest more time and effort into controlling environmental parameters than caring for extra breeders and you will be surprised.

 

[Kristy_07]

Jonno - do you know what pellet these breeding colonies were on?

 

[Bez84]

Ive had a few rat eating rats over the years mainly was down to the feed i was giving them once i changed to one with more protein i havent had a problem since.
Bigger rats will kill smaller rats if they feel like the colony has reached a point where its no longer sustainable eg. to little space and food.
Im currently using True blue dog food which i get from my local produce place, its 21% protein and 11% fat and is the same shape and size as the lab rat pellets.
Been using it for a while now and noticed a huge improvement in growth rates and litters and just general improvement in the health of the rats when i switched to it.
And for $22.50 for 20kg its good value.

 

[raaaa]

firstly i agree with the others about the protien my pet rats get a generic rat and mouse mix suplimented with veggis scraps (no lettuce cabbage avocado rhubarb onion or garlic) and bones/ meat scraps and pasta or rice.
secondly are your rats inbreed? mothers will eat any pups they deem to be unhealthy! also young mothers will eat there babiies to reabsorb the calcium that can be leached from there bones if a calcium suplement isnt given to them
thirdly rats should be friendly before becoming pregnant if you just put two female rats who are strangers or fight together they will canabalise eachothers young to give there own the best chance.

hopefully this helps