Carnivorous plants in a frog tank?

[Naga_Kanya]

I've just made up a pretty new enclosure for my Spotted Marsh Frogs, and I'm hoping to put Brown Tree Frogs in it too. I've used real plants (peace lilies and a couple of ferns and native orchids) and moss, which have all been thriving in the other, smaller tank for nearly a year now. I do love carnivorous plants though and was wondering whether there are any restrictions on putting them in with the frogs, other than the obvious (ie. don't put pitcher plants big enough for the frogs to fit inside). I've got some sundews that I think would look beautiful, and was wondering if anything in the sticky 'dew' substance would be harmful to my little guys? There were always millions of sundews all around the 'frog bog' at the bottom of my horses' paddock, and they never seemed to cause problems for the frogs, but an enclosure is very different from the wild. I'm guessing the smaller-mouthed sarracenias would be alright, so long as the froggies couldn't fall in. I suspect the carnivorous plants would enjoy the odd wandering cricket.

I'll steer clear of flytraps, as they'd probably be triggered by the frogs. Any other suggestions? I'm a very keen gardener as well as a snake/frog-owner, so real plants appeal greatly, and I'm happy to put in the effort of keeping them. The substrate is aquarium gravel, and the plants are in small pots (except for the orchids which are epiphytes). Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[dihsmaj]

I was going to say 'make sure they can't eat the frogs' but you already know that.
It's not helping, I know, but can you get some pics of the tank? Sounds great!

 

[Radar]

I wish I could grow sarracenias up here. Nepenthes should actually be no worries (provided you can meet the conditions they need. There are plenty of hybrids, particularly smaller ones made with N. ventricosa, where the lid on the pitchers doesn't really open much at all (while the plant is small anyway). Provided there is enough air movement within the tank they should grow no worries, but they will get large and probably need to be swapped out again for smaller plants. You can pick up common/cheap varients at bunning in pots with a bunch of seedlings in the one pot during summer, just divide them out, grow them on a bit and plant in your tank.

Depends on the size of the sundews and the size of the frogs I guess, it shouldn't harm the frogs provided they can swim freely in clean water. I don't really have a clue about this one though...

 

[Naga_Kanya]

I was going to say 'make sure they can't eat the frogs' but you already know that.
It's not helping, I know, but can you get some pics of the tank? Sounds great!

Thanks! I'll post some as soon as I can. It still needs a bit more work, but I'm pretty happy with it so far.

I wish I could grow sarracenias up here. Nepenthes should actually be no worries (provided you can meet the conditions they need. There are plenty of hybrids, particularly smaller ones made with N. ventricosa, where the lid on the pitchers doesn't really open much at all (while the plant is small anyway). Provided there is enough air movement within the tank they should grow no worries, but they will get large and probably need to be swapped out again for smaller plants. You can pick up common/cheap varients at bunning in pots with a bunch of seedlings in the one pot during summer, just divide them out, grow them on a bit and plant in your tank.

Oh, that's interesting to know - thank you! I love nepenthes, and they can live in my bathroom once they get too big. I've only ever had large-ish ones, but I've got a great exotics nursery so they'll probably have a smaller variety. Thanks for the name - I'll bring it along when I go shopping.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

I really think you should try and go native. (Just I like natives), use native Drosera and if you can get them the WA Pitcher Plant (Cephalotus follicularis). I don't think Sundews would be dangerous to the frogs especially if you are using species with smaller collecting surfaces (probably not a good idea to use the broad leaved ones).

 

[AUSGECKO]

I think if you put any Drosera in there they will most likely get trashed by the frogs, I'm not sure whether the secretions on the plants would harm the frogs but keep in mind that they are digestive fluids. The dis advantage to putting sarras in there would be that if they are small enough that the frogs can't fall in, the frogs would most likely bend the pitchers over and they don't really recover from that. If you want any drosera seed have a look on my website in the for sale section and send me a PM, www.ausgecko.com
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Radar]

I really think you should try and go native. (Just I like natives), use native Drosera and if you can get them the WA Pitcher Plant (Cephalotus follicularis). I don't think Sundews would be dangerous to the frogs especially if you are using species with smaller collecting surfaces (probably not a good idea to use the broad leaved ones).

I like native species too, did my honours on bush tucker ;P
I think in this case though the price of albany pitcher plants and the conditions they need might make it a bit unfeasible (mind you, they are a whole lot easier to grow in Melbourne than in NQ). There are certainly easier species to grow, but if you are capable of doing it go for it, I'd certainly be jealous

The point about frogs trashing sundews is certainly valid...

 

[Naga_Kanya]

I really think you should try and go native. (Just I like natives), use native Drosera and if you can get them the WA Pitcher Plant (Cephalotus follicularis). I don't think Sundews would be dangerous to the frogs especially if you are using species with smaller collecting surfaces (probably not a good idea to use the broad leaved ones).

I prefer to go native where possible, and indigenous if possible. Hence the dendrobium orchids, and the local ferns and moss (not so much the peace lilies, but they're good in low light and pretty hardy). Thank you - I am really appreciating the scientific names which hopefully my nursery can give me a hand with.

I think if you put any Drosera in there they will most likely get trashed by the frogs, I'm not sure whether the secretions on the plants would harm the frogs but keep in mind that they are digestive fluids. The dis advantage to putting sarras in there would be that if they are small enough that the frogs can't fall in, the frogs would most likely bend the pitchers over and they don't really recover from that. If you want any drosera seed have a look on my website in the for sale section and send me a PM, www.ausgecko.com
Cheers,
Chris

Drosera is what I have; they're quite small and delicate, but it's a fairly big area the frogs have (45x45x45cm) and I'll only have 4-6 frogs in there, so hopefully they won't get too trashed.

It was the digestive juice issue I was worried about; frogs have sensitive skin and I was worried the sticky substance might burn them in some way, or just cause them discomfort. Thanks for the heads-up about seed - I'll definitely check that out, if just for my garden rather than the frogs.

I like native species too, did my honours on bush tucker ;P

That's very cool. I've been exploring local wildfoods in my new area, and loving it, but they're mostly introduced species. My garden's largely native, and I've been planting out native food plants for me and the local birds. Queensland must be a bit of a bush tucker wonderland, what with the native macadamias and all...

I'll check out the Albany pitchers and see if I can give them the care they'd need in the tank. It's not heated, and it gets cold up here, so I'll have to see whether they'd be okay. having said that I've managed to keep a cattleya orchid alive, outside, through the winter here, so maybe they're just as hardy. Thanks so much for the advice though. I love a difficult plant challenge - years of bonsai and orchids have given me a bit of a taste for it.

So long and the frogs won't be hurt I'm happy to give the sundews a go. I'll try them in a small, out of the way area first, but I'll give it a couple of days in case anyone else here chips in with a more definite answer. I'd never forgive myself if I hurt the little guys when I was trying to do something nice for them.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Are the Sundews you have the climbing ones that have a long stalk of little capturing leaves and flower from this stalk or are they the ones that have leaves close to the ground with 'feelers' over it and just send up a flower? I think they would both have positives and negatives in terms of being trashed. The climbing ones would be less near the ground so the spotted marsh frogs would have little access to them and be less likely to mess them up and brown tree frogs are rather small delicate creatures themselves. The ground variety would probably have a delicate flower but the ground part of the plant seem far more resistant and less likely to get messed up.

Sundews mainly act by catching there prey and then slowly digesting, if the frogs are able to move off the plant (be strong enough) not to get stuck, then I don't think the digestive material would really be a major issue for them, but I might be wrong, I would certainly be careful with this setup.

 

[Trench]

Still waiting for pics

 

[mkwak]

I have grown carnivorous plants for 10 years now and i cantell you Drosera (sundews) will not cause your frogs any problems at all,sarracenia may be a problem because some species can grow very tall, the prostratepitcher plants (S.purpurea & S. psittacina) can grow well in terrariums buti would recommend S. psittacina as the frogs will not get stuck in the pictureand potentially die.