Dont be so harsh on newbies....

[montysrainbow]

Im pretty much one myself as u all know. I have seen a few comments directed at newbies that makes me feel people are simply trying to learn more and share their experience and love of reptiles. Also some newbies have loved reptiles all their life! however didn't get their 1st until now....doesn't make them any less worthy of being a member on here. Please don't be mean, everyone has to start somewhere :| make love not war.

 

[woody101]

I totally agree with you thats the one bad thing about APS is all the nasty comments

 

[Umbral]

Shut up Woody, no one is nasty here

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'm sometimes blunt with new keepers - if they haven't even researched the basics of reptile needs before getting an animal. Coming to APS AFTER you've bought your snake or whatever and then asking the most basic questions about its needs is putting the cart way before the horse in my opinion. Animals are not like iPhones or other consumable gadgets which you can put away in a drawer until someone can show you how to use it, but unfortunately they are becoming commodities which are too easily acquired, and will break if not treated correctly.

My view is that intending keepers should be able to demonstrate a knowledge of basic husbandry skills, and perhaps a link with an experienced keeper, before being issued with a licence to keep reptiles. All the over-regulation of licenced keepers now in place in NSW stands for nothing while new keepers can walk in off the street and get a licence, and acquire a reptile, without even the most basic understanding of its needs.

A lot of the irritation I feel when those newbies come onto APS and start asking questions (to which they should know the answers before getting their pet) is directed toward those APS members who set themselves up as experts after only 10 minutes of keeping, and offer (frequently misleading but often insistent) advice to newbies, based on their own limited experience. Many of these new keepers have an expectation that reptiles are now domesticated animals, and all natural instincts and behaviours are bred out of them in the past 2-3 generations. Nothing could be further from the truth - a captive-bred Carpet Python hisses at its new owner - this shouldn't even raise a question here (because Carpet Pythons hiss at anything that disturbs them when they want to be alone - it's true!)... but it did because the EXPECTATION was that a 6yo Carpet should be well behaved based on past history. And then it becomes evident that the keeper doesn't know what to do about the snake when it exhibits quite normal, but unexpected behaviour. All this should be understood BEFORE the acquisition of the animal.

My rant for the day...

Jamie

 

[montysrainbow]

I'm sometimes blunt with new keepers - if they haven't even researched the basics of reptile needs before getting an animal. Coming to APS AFTER you've bought your snake or whatever and then asking the most basic questions about its needs is putting the cart way before the horse in my opinion. Animals are not like iPhones or other consumable gadgets which you can put away in a drawer until someone can show you how to use it, but unfortunately they are becoming commodities which are too easily acquired, and will break if not treated correctly.

My view is that intending keepers should be able to demonstrate a knowledge of basic husbandry skills, and perhaps a link with an experienced keeper, before being issued with a licence to keep reptiles. All the over-regulation of licenced keepers now in place in NSW stands for nothing while new keepers can walk in off the street and get a licence, and acquire a reptile, without even the most basic understanding of its needs.

A lot of the irritation I feel when those newbies come onto APS and start asking questions (to which they should know the answers before getting their pet) is directed toward those APS members who set themselves up as experts after only 10 minutes of keeping, and offer (frequently misleading but often insistent) advice to newbies, based on their own limited experience. Many of these new keepers have an expectation that reptiles are now domesticated animals, and all natural instincts and behaviours are bred out of them in the past 2-3 generations. Nothing could be further from the truth - a captive-bred Carpet Python hisses at its new owner - this shouldn't even raise a question here (because Carpet Pythons hiss at anything that disturbs them when they want to be alone - it's true!)... but it did because the EXPECTATION was that a 6yo Carpet should be well behaved based on past history. And then it becomes evident that the keeper doesn't know what to do about the snake when it exhibits quite normal, but unexpected behaviour. All this should be understood BEFORE the acquisition of the animal.

My rant for the day...Jamie

yes I hear u and I understand what your saying its just sometimes a simple question is asked and people get advised to use google! or search the forum. I know not everyone on here is mean infact most are very welcoming lol but sometimes some people need to think before they type. that is all

 

[Pythoninfinite]

yes I hear u and I understand what your saying its just sometimes a simple question is asked and people get advised to use google! or search the forum. I know not everyone on here is mean infact most are very welcoming lol but sometimes some people need to think before they type. that is all

I always try and explain WHY a certain thing should or shouldn't be done... Like the refreezing rat question - comes up again and again here, and the same people chime in and say you're asking for trouble if you do that - "never feed a snake something you wouldn't eat yourself...!" I actually don't eat rats or mice, and if I did, I wouldn't eat a refrozen one because my digestive system and my resistance to bacterial infection is very different to that of a snake. When you actually explain that a snake's digestive system is very slow compared to ours, and they don't chew their food into easily broken down mush the way we do, so the food item usually begins to rot for a few days in the snake's stomach before the digestive juices get in and clean it up, it begins to make sense that a rodent which has been thawed for 2-3 hours can be refrozen and used again without harm, if it isn't eaten the first time.

That's not to say that keepers don't have the right to choose NOT to refreeze - it is their choice after all - but the reasoning behind that choice is often the result of poor understanding of the way a snake's insides work, and the tendency to liken snakes to humans on a physiological level... and don't even get me started on the psychological stuff !

Jamie

 

[M.Carinata]

I am also new the keeping reptiles but did a great amount of research prior to getting my critters. At this stage I avoid trying to give advise on the basis it could very well be wrong. But at the end of the day, what would you rather? A "newbie" having their husbandry skills wrong and affecting these animals that we all share a love of, or deal with an annoying question, which you could ignore if you choose to.

Jamie has a very valid point, new keepers should do some research on whichever species they intend to keep before they acquire them. Though some of the flamings on this site are incredible and very off putting. After all, us "No0bs" are the future of this hobby and we're human beings with a right to be treated with respect.

Just take peoples feelings into account, harsh words hurt more than one would realise and we don't know what else is going on in the others life.

As Gran always said "Treat others how you wish to be treated"

 

[LaraJane]

I agree with both Montysrainbow and pythoninfinate. I'm a newbie, got my first snake a Darwin albino Hatchy (she is adorable, her name is Luna, i will post a pic after her first shed with me ) about 1 month ago and considering im so new to it all it even annoys me when a newbie asks a stupid question like the 6yo python hissing story, so for all the experienced reptile owners/breeders etc on here it must really peeve them off when you can tell the person has done zero research whatsoever.

And then there are newbie and not so newbie questions that some people just think they can be rude too because they seem to know the answer and the other person doesn't. Which is just silly because we are all on here to gain knowledge and share experiences.

 

[jacorin]

just a question jamie,how would you propose newbies to get a link with an experienced keeper?? yeh there might be a lot of experienced ppl out there,but most if not all,wont let you near their place let alone give you info and help..... the reptile world is a place of hush hush and secrecy,thats what ive observed anyway....my reptile gathering was started on a whim,bought in a carpark sale,cause "god forbid" i might see what they had,let alone get information out of them.

 

[mad_at_arms]

just a question jamie,how would you propose newbies to get a link with an experienced keeper??

Buy their books and read them.

 

[Brodie]

Funny how rude people can be when they don't have to deal with the consequences face to face.

Jamie, you may be blunt, but I have never seen a post of yours that is out of line. Other people are very aggressive.

Jacorin, more than one person on here has had their snakes stolen. I know of four people that have been held at gun point while this was happening. I can understand breeders keeping others away from their collection. There is obviously a risk of disease as well.

 

[phatty]

well keeping reptiles is only a new thing for all of us (as a hobby) so really we are all newbies some people have a far greater knowledge that others (the likes of Jamie /blue and many others) but at the end of the day no one really knows the requirements.
it not like a dog that has been a pet for 1000's of years

 

[jacorin]

books? yeh ok i'll agree to that,but sitting down to read puts me to sleep,would be better doing it face to face... if you think im being rude brodie,well thats your call,all i did was ask a question,so that makes me agressive? .... i also know a lot of bird breeders who have had the same happen to them,esp with the higher end birds they had,but birdies are a lot friendlier and more open about things IMO, i dont see the reptile diseases being anymore dangerous than the avian ones,but im probly wrong,more often than not i am. there are a lot more experienced birdies on here than me.

 

[Brodie]

Chill out jacorin. Not once did i accuse you of being rude or aggressive.

 

[Ramsayi]

These days there is a massive amount of info available on the interwebs.More and more it seems that a lot of new keepers want to be spoon fed even the most basic stuff.

 

[littlemay]

I think a lot of the time when newbies come on asking questions on fairly basic husbandry it's not necessarily that they haven't done any research, it's that they are overwhelmed by the amount of conflicting information available on the internet these days and are wanting to chat with someone directly to figure out what's what.

When i was considering my first snake i got pretty confused over many things because everyone seemed to have a different opinion. In the end i got myself a couple of good books on the advice of several members here and decided i could be pretty safe with what Mr. Mike Swan had to say. Along the way i probably asked some stupid questions but it wasn't that i had no idea, i was just trying to consolidate my knowledge while at the same time have a nice chat with some like-minded people.

I also don't think it's realistic to expect people to know every single intricate aspect of reptile ownership before embarking on getting their first animal, part of gaining this sort of knowledge comes through experience. While i agree that it is important that new owners have an understanding of how to keep their reptile alive and healthy, i don't think that not knowing all the ins and outs of their animal's behavour is going to do that much harm - maybe a few worried and/or confused threads - but not that much actual harm.

 

[Jessie_James]

The only stupid question is the one that is not asked! I also think that may new keepers are looking for reassurance in the information that they already have. For this hobby to grow in the future we need to show some guidance to the next generation to which may of these questions are coming from.

 

[montysrainbow]

These days there is a massive amount of info available on the interwebs.More and more it seems that a lot of new keepers want to be spoon fed even the most basic stuff.

its called asking for advice....

I think a lot of the time when newbies come on asking questions on fairly basic husbandry it's not necessarily that they haven't done any research, it's that they are overwhelmed by the amount of conflicting information available on the internet these days and are wanting to chat with someone directly to figure out what's what.

When i was considering my first snake i got pretty confused over many things because everyone seemed to have a different opinion. In the end i got myself a couple of good books on the advice of several members here and decided i could be pretty safe with what Mr. Mike Swan had to say. Along the way i probably asked some stupid questions but it wasn't that i had no idea, i was just trying to consolidate my knowledge while at the same time have a nice chat with some like-minded people.

I also don't think it's realistic to expect people to know every single intricate aspect of reptile ownership before embarking on getting their first animal, part of gaining this sort of knowledge comes through experience. While i agree that it is important that new owners have an understanding of how to keep their reptile alive and healthy, i don't think that not knowing all the ins and outs of their animal's behavour is going to do that much harm - maybe a few worried and/or confused threads - but not that much actual harm.

so true.

The only stupid question is the one that is not asked! I also think that may new keepers are looking for reassurance in the information that they already have. For this hobby to grow in the future we need to show some guidance to the next generation to which may of these questions are coming from.

couldnt agree more

 

[jesus]

Where all ways learning in this hobby no 1 can say they know it all I get blunt with newbies that don't research basic things the only reason is because I am concerned for the well being of there reptiles and when I first started on this forum Afew years ago people where absolute idiots to me as a newbie luckily tho I have made some very good mates in the hobby and one has taken me under his wing so to speak and I have learnt a bloody lot off one of them

 

[Sleazy.P.Martini]

If someone bought a car and started driving it before they knew how, I'm sure you'd all be very blunt...