Egg bound diamond, need good advice

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JasonW

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IMG_20200731_110132603_HDR_resize_57.jpg My female laid a mix of 8 good eggs along wth 12 non fertile ,hard(calcified?) eggs 6 days ago. She clearly has 3 eggs retained that won't seem to come out. I've been giving her warm 1 hour soaks daily and I'm not sure what else to do. Any breeders out there with advice I would really appreciate it, im worried she could die soon. I'm in a rural area and there are no herp vets just regular ones who I doubt could help.

She became gravid accidentally, in just 1 or 2 brief encounters with my male. She is 16 years old. Optimal health. A bit of stress from a 5 day drive but that was 45 days ago.

First egg is about 3 inches behind the vent, then the next is separated by about 2 inches and the next one 2 inches behind that. Clear to see 3 eggs separated not all bunched together.
 
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Basically you have to choose an interventionist or non interventionist route.

My preference in these situations is generally non interventionist. Nature tends to sort itself out more successfully than human intervention when it comes to these issues. But, there are plenty of exceptions. People tend to feel a desire to actively help, and struggle to keep their hands off; they just want to do things, but it tends to cause more harm than good. The opportunity to soak is certainly good, but if she is being forced to spend an hour per day in an environment she isn't choosing, it's just as likely to stress her out as it is to help, especially if you're just repeatedly doing the same thing despite not getting a result.

It's difficult to make the judgement without seeing her, but personally I'd be inclined to keep handling to zero and just leave her alone to rest and recover unmolested. Generally snakes in this situation do pass the eggs, but sometimes they don't.

Again, I can't see her some I'm having to use some guesswork, but if I was going to intervene in a situation like this, assuming she's a large snake (a 16 year old Diamond likely is) I'd probably be lubing up a sexing probe with petroleum jelly and gently working the lubricant into her to allow the eggs to slip out. This is a very delicate procedure and if you make an error you can cause a life-threatening injury. Some people will try to massage the eggs out, you can try that if you want, but again, it's very dangerous. If you do this, don't be tempted to force them, just give a gentle push and if they're not moving, don't force them.

There are definitely exceptions, but I generally observe that the more pushing and prodding and hassling and molesting that people do, the more likely the result will be bad, and when people just stay hands off, the result is usually good. Vets in situations like this generally go for surgery, which generally does save the snake's life, but not always, and after such surgery complications are not uncommon and there is a very high chance that the snake will have problems if she's ever bred again. Compare this with a higher rate of success with the non interventionist method (doing literally nothing) and obviously no complications.

At the end of the day, your snake and you have to make the decision.
 
Basically you have to choose an interventionist or non interventionist route.

My preference in these situations is generally non interventionist. Nature tends to sort itself out more successfully than human intervention when it comes to these issues. But, there are plenty of exceptions. People tend to feel a desire to actively help, and struggle to keep their hands off; they just want to do things, but it tends to cause more harm than good. The opportunity to soak is certainly good, but if she is being forced to spend an hour per day in an environment she isn't choosing, it's just as likely to stress her out as it is to help, especially if you're just repeatedly doing the same thing despite not getting a result.

It's difficult to make the judgement without seeing her, but personally I'd be inclined to keep handling to zero and just leave her alone to rest and recover unmolested. Generally snakes in this situation do pass the eggs, but sometimes they don't.

Again, I can't see her some I'm having to use some guesswork, but if I was going to intervene in a situation like this, assuming she's a large snake (a 16 year old Diamond likely is) I'd probably be lubing up a sexing probe with petroleum jelly and gently working the lubricant into her to allow the eggs to slip out. This is a very delicate procedure and if you make an error you can cause a life-threatening injury. Some people will try to massage the eggs out, you can try that if you want, but again, it's very dangerous. If you do this, don't be tempted to force them, just give a gentle push and if they're not moving, don't force them.

There are definitely exceptions, but I generally observe that the more pushing and prodding and hassling and molesting that people do, the more likely the result will be bad, and when people just stay hands off, the result is usually good. Vets in situations like this generally go for surgery, which generally does save the snake's life, but not always, and after such surgery complications are not uncommon and there is a very high chance that the snake will have problems if she's ever bred again. Compare this with a higher rate of success with the non interventionist method (doing literally nothing) and obviously no complications.

At the end of the day, your snake and you have to make the decision.

Pic posted. Thanks for sharing your opinion Sdaji. I did try to massage them out but they felt like they were held in place tightly. I don't have a probe unfortunately
 
Pic posted. Thanks for sharing your opinion Sdaji. I did try to massage them out but they felt like they were held in place tightly. I don't have a probe unfortunately

I've just seen the picture. Ouch, they're a fair way up, not a great sign, and probably not something you could deal with using lube and a probe.

Again, I'd probably still go the non interventionist approach and I'd guess it would probably work out okay, but I'd be a bit less confident, and there's more of a case for going the interventionist approach. Especially with eggs so far up and not bunched together near the vent I wouldn't expect soaks to help at all; they rarely are anyway, but... think about it like this, if you take a hot bath your **** might get hot and relaxed, but it's not going to do anything two feet up your colon.

If there's a blockage near the vent and the eggs are bunched up behind it, you might just have one stuck egg, and clearing that may allow the other eggs to pass, especially if you get to it early, but if you have eggs stuck independently, further up, clearing one won't help the others.

The safe thing for me to say would be to recommend a vet and then wash my hands of it (safe because if it goes bad it's the vet's fault, not mine, I just passed and took no responsibility, but hey, I'm not taking any anyway) and that's what the vast majority of people would do, and it's your call, you may want to do that, but I see surgical intervention cause more problems than it prevents. You don't cut a live animal open without introducing new risks, and you remove the opportunity for the body to correct the problem itself, which it usually does. But, sometimes it doesn't, and those cases, surgery usually will help.

My fingers are crossed for you whatever you choose to do. Either way I'd bet on a recovery, but there are no guarantees so be prepared for a rocky road.
 
Hi JasonW
If you don't mind me asking , were are you located ? If you are near Canberra, i could recommend my vet. He is not a reptile specialist, but he dose keep Diamond pythons himself and has been very helpful to me in the past. Either way , best of luck with your Diamond.
 
Hi JasonW
If you don't mind me asking , were are you located ? If you are near Canberra, i could recommend my vet. He is not a reptile specialist, but he dose keep Diamond pythons himself and has been very helpful to me in the past. Either way , best of luck with your Diamond.
Hi JasonW
If you don't mind me asking , were are you located ? If you are near Canberra, i could recommend my vet. He is not a reptile specialist, but he dose keep Diamond pythons himself and has been very helpful to me in the past. Either way , best of luck with your Diamond.
Thanks for asking, I'm actually up in the US, upstate New York. He sounds like a good vet though.
 

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