Elapids (Class One)

[hodges]

Hello all,

I was recently talking to a few people that keep elapids and the like i brought up the topic of class one elapids it seems there are huge amounts of interest for these elapids i myself have jumped in on the fun with these amazing elapids.

We are now seeing quite a few number of people keeping de vis banded snakes, marsh snakes, whip snakes ETC. I can name a few people that will be attempting to breed marshies and de vis. The sign of people wanting to purchase these snakes and also people trying to breed but also putting the effort in to expand these reptiles in captivity, this is a good sign for the hobby and elapids in general.

In the past few months of keeping these elapids i have learned so much that i can take with me when i start to keep class two elapids this is why i think these class one elapids are great to kick of your elapid keeping. You learn the basic's of force feeding (when it comes to class one elapids i'm sure many who keep them have had to force feed at one stage) tho feeding can be a huge set back for those wishing to keep class one elapids as they aren't the easiest to get going. Handling wise you learn alot (most of these snakes aren't great to handle been flighty ETC) also not to mention some of these elapids are very hardy in captivity.

I can see a few years down the track the likes of de vis banded snakes and marshies will be as common in captivity as coastal carpets.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the expansion of these elapids in captivity ? Or these elapids in general ?

 

[kensai]

Any expansion of elapid keeping is a good Idea, in SA we even have an elapid on the basic permit ( Masters snake) the more we know about these amazing creatures the less fear they will inspire

 

[waruikazi]

I think they will stay as they are and be more of a specialist type of snake and i hope that is where they will stay in our hobby. I think they are awesome animals but oh my god are they difficult to keep lol. I timed myself today feeding my whip and it took a full half hour, more if you include defrosting time lol. AND mine is a good feeder!!!


I'll be getting a few more small elapids mianly for the fact that i like them but also i don't mind putting in the time and i have a good source. These reptiles demand alot of respect and they need to be kept right or they will just die, they are definately not for everyone. I don't even think they are suitable for your general elapid keeper.

 

[hodges]

I think they will stay as they are and be more of a specialist type of snake and i hope that is where they will stay in our hobby. I think they are awesome animals but oh my god are they difficult to keep lol. I timed myself today feeding my whip and it took a full half hour, more if you include defrosting time lol. AND mine is a good feeder!!!


I'll be getting a few more small elapids mianly for the fact that i like them but also i don't mind putting in the time and i have a good source. These reptiles demand alot of respect and they need to be kept right or they will just die, they are definately not for everyone. I don't even think they are suitable for your general elapid keeper.

I agree with the fact they aren't for everyone. But i think these snakes can thrive in captivity if keepers have a little bit of common sense and the motivation to keep the snakes going (putting the effort and time in) i myself find feeding time the best part of keeping them their unpredicatable nature is what i like about them, having your up and down days with feeding.

I was in the same boat as you at one stage wanting only a hand full of people keeping them gives them the extra uhh rareness in captivity :lol: but now i'm the opposite i wish there where sustainable numbers in the industry/hobby which would be great for the population of these small elapids and also keeps the hobby going

 

[waruikazi]

Don't get me wrong i think anyone who has the genuine interest and are willing to put in the hard yards and the love should get into them and i would do just about anything i could to help those people get there. But i can see people buying them cause they are 'rare' and 'cool' which is the main thing i would like to see avoided. Worse than that i can see people buying them as a 'cash crop' sorta thing. You hardly ever see small elapid hatchies come up for sale and when they do they fetch what seems like a high price. I can see people buying pairs, breeding them (which in the scheme of things wouldn't be that hard to do) and then either irresponsibly selling off the hatchies or losing all the hatchies due to poor knowledge.

I think what i'd like to see with these unique snakes is for them to stay with the people who have a genuine interest for them and not become commercialized. I think it was Shane Black or Epiper (however his name is spelt lol) who siad that keeping elapids is a passion not a hobby (or something to that effect) and i recon that sums how i feel about this kinda thing pretty well.

Hodges it is taking all my effort (and bank statement) to not go out and buy every whip, marshy, small eye etc etc that i see lol cause i'm not quite in the right time and place to care for all of them yet. My collection will get as big as yours one of these days though. Oh and feeding such switched on snakes is awesome, so much better than pythons and colubrids! I would compare it to fly fishing for tuna versus bait fishing for carp in a pond lol.

 

[hodges]

Don't get me wrong i think anyone who has the genuine interest and are willing to put in the hard yards and the love should get into them and i would do just about anything i could to help those people get there. But i can see people buying them cause they are 'rare' and 'cool' which is the main thing i would like to see avoided. Worse than that i can see people buying them as a 'cash crop' sorta thing. You hardly ever see small elapid hatchies come up for sale and when they do they fetch what seems like a high price. I can see people buying pairs, breeding them (which in the scheme of things wouldn't be that hard to do) and then either irresponsibly selling off the hatchies or losing all the hatchies due to poor knowledge.

I think what i'd like to see with these unique snakes is for them to stay with the people who have a genuine interest for them and not become commercialized. I think it was Shane Black or Epiper (however his name is spelt lol) who siad that keeping elapids is a passion not a hobby (or something to that effect) and i recon that sums how i feel about this kinda thing pretty well.

Hodges it is taking all my effort (and bank statement) to not go out and buy every whip, marshy, small eye etc etc that i see lol cause i'm not quite in the right time and place to care for all of them yet. My collection will get as big as yours one of these days though. Oh and feeding such switched on snakes is awesome, so much better than pythons and colubrids! I would compare it to fly fishing for tuna versus bait fishing for carp in a pond lol.

Yeah i probably didn't word it very well i do feel the same when it comes to any joe blow keeping them for fun or because they are "rare" but i just would like to see them more readily in captivity.

If i was successful in breeding this year and had produced a couple of snakes i think id keep 80% for learning purposes meaning feeding wise ETC.

Mate id be stoked if i had the same whip as your's

 

[waruikazi]

Yeah i probably didn't word it very well i do feel the same when it comes to any joe blow keeping them for fun or because they are "rare" but i just would like to see them more readily in captivity.

If i was successful in breeding this year and had produced a couple of snakes i think id keep 80% for learning purposes meaning feeding wise ETC.

Mate id be stoked if i had the same whip as your's

I know what you're saying lol i recon we've got the same mindset except i give off slightly more cautious vibes lol.

Simple fact about them is they are difficult to keep, several people tried to talk me out of buying mine including the breeder because they are so much harder than pythons. They are so difficult that people looking to get into elapids or vens overlook them and go for easier species to keep even though the easier elapids are generally more dangerous and once ur into the bigger vens why go backwards lol? That is basically my reasoning why i recon they will stay a bit rarer in captivity. To be honest i kinda like it this way.

 

[jamgo]

Class one elapids are rare in captivity for a reason not many people can breed them let alone raise the babies and i can't see that changing anytime soon .

 

[junglepython2]

They are a pain in the rear to feed and are usually secretive and what most would consider boring, they will never be anywhere near as common or popular as carpets.

 

[moosenoose]

What is this class 1 & 2 you refer to? ....this is Victoria I'm talking about :lol: :lol: (joking) You Northerners get a rough deal!

I'd love to keep LIttle Whips and the like, but finding someone willing to part with such a commonly found snake in Victoria is near impossible! I'm a big fan for the uncommonly kept species and love keeping something different! Probably explains why I only have single animals throughout my collection - I'm too greedy to buy pairs when I can purchase something new :lol:

I guess breeding stuff has never really been high on my agenda either Such a shame.

 

[pythons73]

So has anyone breed Marsh,Whips or Devis or any other class1 elapids,if so whats the basic method with pairing up etc,time of year.As ive rarely seen any hatchies for sale i wouldnt think too many ppl have breed them.Considering most are only small snakes to start with i could only imagine how small the babies would be,i recently had a small Marsh snake here no bigger than a 12-15cm,i gather that was a few months old.Also what would these start to feed on,mice tails etc.Any input would be greatly appreciated,I agree with Jamgo on this,

 

[hodges]

So has anyone breed Marsh,Whips or Devis or any other class1 elapids,if so whats the basic method with pairing up etc,time of year.As ive rarely seen any hatchies for sale i wouldnt think too many ppl have breed them.Considering most are only small snakes to start with i could only imagine how small the babies would be,i recently had a small Marsh snake here no bigger than a 12-15cm,i gather that was a few months old.Also what would these start to feed on,mice tails etc.Any input would be greatly appreciated,I agree with Jamgo on this,

I brought a marsh snake that was very small and still is very small the person who i brought it of worked on these snakes alot trying to get them feeding, i'm currently feeding it fish it seems to be working a treat also the snake is too small to be feeding pinkies ETC but i guess pinkie tails and the like would work just haven't tried.

Moose class one consists of De Vis banded snakes, Yellow faced whip snakes, Marsh snakes just to name a couple, and your class two cat one RBBS ETC.

 

[waruikazi]

I brought a marsh snake that was very small and still is very small the person who i brought it of worked on these snakes alot trying to get them feeding, i'm currently feeding it fish it seems to be working a treat also the snake is too small to be feeding pinkies ETC but i guess pinkie tails and the like would work just haven't tried.

Moose class one consists of De Vis banded snakes, Yellow faced whip snakes, Marsh snakes just to name a couple, and your class two cat one RBBS ETC.

Rat tails and peices of pinkies will keep the snakes alive but they wont grow on them because they lack all the nutrients of the gut content.

 

[dpeica]

 

[hodges]

Very jealous dave, sign me up for a few more if you produce some

 

[jamgo]

I normally start small stuff out on pinkie drumsticks then pinkie heads then onto half pinkies then onto full has they grow.

 

[waruikazi]

Jamgo do you keep ringed browns or any of the furina genus?

AND do you find that what ever your feeding on drumsticks eventually begin to take peices of pinkies voluntarily? Do you find that pinkies offer more nutrition than fish?

 

[hodges]

I normally start small stuff out on pinkie drumsticks then pinkie heads then onto half pinkies then onto full has they grow.

I use to always just want to use pinkies or closer but now i am hooked on feeding fish. Does anyone have any information about the nutritional differences between fish and mice ETC

 

[Elapidae1]

I'm from WA and new to keeping herps is class 1 a starters permit and if so i would have thought that keeping pythons until some experience is gained would be in order. In WA license runs from categorie 2 up to 5 cat 2 you can keep bobtails etc cat 5 contains venomous i have cat 3 this allows me to keep western capet and stimsons pythons after 1 year i can get cat 4. and then can keep more difficult species i think this system is good. Is there a need for inexperienced people to keep elapids regardless of how dangerous they may be considered. Sorry if i misunderstand your class
system

 

[waruikazi]

The class one that hodges is referring to are small elapids that aren't considered dangerous. It is a bit confusing with all the states having different systems.