Email from non-member

[lutzd]

Can anyone advise this person? I'll preface it with the advice that he should have called wires or similar to have the snake relocated rather than using the shovel technique. Please don't give him tooooo hard a time! This is a chance to educate a non-herper!

"Hi, I dont know if you are the right people to ask but this snake was in my daughters sandpit a couple of hours ago. She is 4 years old and i have 2 dogs living in the back yard too, I dont usually kill snakes when i find them but this one wasnt a usual sight. I have caught a few carpets and tree snakes around here and released them before but i wasnt gonna risk it with this one, he looked ready to bring on the hurts. By the way i live in townsville in nth qld, any help would be greatly appreciated, cheers. eddy"

 

[ad]

That makes me feel sick to the stomach,
Eddy, please call NPWS next time, the animals can be removed quite easily.
Keep up the good work relocating the tree snakes and pythons,
but remember there is a place on the planet for all animals. (except maybe cane toads and cats)
Ad

 

[Kris]

He's killed a Keelback (Tropidonophis Mairii). It's also known as a Freshwater Snake. It's diet mainly consists of frogs and it can also eat cane toads and survive.They grow to a maximum of about one metre. The side on shows that the mouth hooks up like a smile, which is trait of Australian colubrids. You can see a slight line or ridge down the centre of each scales, this is what gives them their name. Keelbacks are non venomous. If it looked like it was about to "bring on the hurts" then that would have been because it perceived a threat and was trying to defend itself.

You also find in Townsville a remarkably similar looking snake called the Rough Scaled Snake which is dangerously venomous. So the next time you see what you think is a Keelback it wouldn't be advisable to try moving it yourself on the basis that you think it's harmless.

(See we were nice )

 

[Kris]

Please don't shoot us down for this one but we felt we should maybe also point out that moving snakes at all (no matter what they are) is illegal in QLD unless you hold a Damage Mitigation Permit.

 

[cwarren72]

looks a bit big for a keelback. Ltuzy old man fo you have this guys email address to see if he has any pics of its mouth parts?

 

[Kris]

It certainly is a big un If you look closely at the third picture down (which is a side on view of it's head) you'll see that there is a loreal scale (the scale between the preocular and nasal scale) which is also a trait of colubrids. Rough Scaled Snakes do not have this scale.

 

[NaughtyByNature]

Poor snakie,

 

[RevDaniel]

It is a shame to see our wild reptiles being killed but Eddy isnt to blame. It is society really that says that every snake is a sangerous snake. That the only good snake is a dead one or in the case a headless snake. Like with the diseases of this world we should spend more educating people to save from happening.

 

[Dicco]

I am quite dissapointed yet another one of our beautiful unique fauna has perished due to public ignorance. Chances are the animal was just passing through your yard and would not have stayed for very long at all unless you have a messy yard ie long grass, rubbish or timber piles ect.

If that's the case, I suggest you keep your yard in a more tidy state to prevent wildlife taking up residence. If your yard was clean and free of debrie, then the animal would have soon moved on and the most responsible thing to do is make sure all children and pets are secure away from the area and wait and watch for a while for it to happily move on to a safer and more suitable environment.

In the odd cases where the animal does not move on its own accord I suggest you ring a wildlife association like WIRES who will organise for a snake removalist to come and relocate the animal for you.

I also suggets you seek out information on the reptile life that inhabits your area so you are more aware of their habits, behaviour ect so you can understand them better, as even venomous(not 'poisonous') snakes are only potentially harmful and contrary to the silly roumors and myths snakes will in no circumstances seek out to harm a person and will only take defencive action when they feel that their life is in danger in circumstances like being stepped on(the weight of a human on a snakes spine would be very painful and destressing) or being harrassed by a pet or child(or even adult), even if no harm is intended by the child or pet, the snake will see it as something predating on it, not as curiosity.

Most snake bites occur when someone is attempting to kill the snake.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

That is one giant of harmless Keel Back and I personally have not seen bigger.
Although to the average punter they look similular to the highly venomou srough scaled snake, the keelback has its preocular seperated from its nasal scale by its loreal which is basically what Kris has already explained.
From the photo I can see that it has divided subcaudals which immeadiately rules out the roughscale as they are live bearers. Secondly the rough scale has from memory 23 mid body scales and that specimen has between 15 to 19 which makes it a keelback.

 

[Sdaji]

Such a shame. I've seen well over 100 keelbacks in the Townsville area and never one that big. Good call on the loreal scale, Kris, I think there is only colubrid which doesn't have one, all pythons have them and no elapids have them, so it's a great way for people who aren't so familiar with a wide range of snakes to have some idea of what they are looking at. So sad to see such a big and beautiful one die I'd actually prefer to see it killed than relocated, but I'd much prefer it to have been left alone to slither around eating little toads. I suppose we'll have to chalk up another victory to the shovel :cry:

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Its head has become really broad with age and if you only got to see the head and no neck scales, at first glance you could be excused for thinking it was a brown tree snake. It is an amazing specimen.

 

[cwarren72]

Look I think we are getting a little to tied up in the fact that he has killed it. I think we need to look at it from his point of view. He obviously done it because he felt there was a risk to his animals and even daughter. I don't condone the needless killing of wildlife but at the same time I don't condem those who do it under these circumstances. I think what he is looking for is not critisim but help with identification for future times.

 

[Reptilegirl]

*sigh*
i saw a keel back up the creek a couple of weeks back... no where near as big as that one but a beautiful snake... what a pity...

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I couldn't aggree more. My advice to people (at the risk of up setting people) is that if they feel that their kids are at threat and there is no practical means of removing a dangerous snake, and they can kill it safely, (and yes we all know that most bites occur when trying to kill a snake) then proceed.
The poplulation of that species killed will not suddenly vanish because of the odd dangerous snake killed here and there for the sake of there children safety. I do not promote the killing of reptiles but instead just regonize that there are occassionally circumstances where it more practical.

 

[Moreliaman]

Dicco.......sorry mate, but if my child had been in a sandpit with what i thought could have been a deadly snake ,i wouldnt stop to think, gosh wheres my collins gem guide to australian snakes so i can correctly identify it, ....................................before i get the shovel !

i think the guy did right in view of his situation, and atleast he now knows incase he see's another.

 

[Dicco]

I never at any point said he needed to identify the snake, infact I'd prefer him not try to identify it himself as he may not be able to correctly. If you re-read my post I actually stated he should read up on snake behaviour ect so he can have a better understanding on these animals that pose a potential threat to him, his family and his pets.

I also stated that if there was a snake in the yard to make sure all children and pets were secure away from the area and give the animal the oppertunity to leave his yard on it's own accord.

I hope to hell you wouldn't attempt to kill a snake in the same sand pit your child was in! It's downright dangerous, the snake would become highly stressed and pose a great threat and there's the chance of it biting your child. The smart thing to do is remove your child from the sand pit, if you could cut a snakes head of with the kid in there then you could just as easily remove the child first off. Once the child is no longer in danger the animal can be given the oppertunity to leave before calling someone to move the snake on themselves.

I agree he did what he thought was right, he didn't know any better way of dealing with the situation. But I also believe he should be given information to help him make a better choice that allows the animal its life if the situation arises once more.

Cheers

 

[Moreliaman]

PM dico

 

[Camo]

Hey

Yes it is all well and good to say its a shame and it is but you ask yourself this question if you did not know about snakes and you had a couple of little kids you would kill it aswell. Yes its a shame but think about that side of the picture.

Cheers

Cameron

 

[Kris]

That's not necessarily true. There are a great many people who don't have a clue about snakes and still have the presence of mind to call someone who DOES have a clue about it rather than kill the animal. I'd be far more concerned about getting my kids inside and out of harms way than I would be about trying to shovel the snake.

The person who asked the question which started this thread wanted information about what the snake was so he could have a better idea what to do next time he comes across one. Now, hopefully, he knows better than to kill the next one he sees.