Goanna kills dog and bites elderly couple
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biased reporting once again, the dog (with small man syndrome ) attacked the goanna who defended itself ,the people interfered trying to save the dog.You know what happens when you interfere in an animal fight !
Sorry the people were injured but the dog got what it deserved. The dog should have been on a leash to start with.
Sorry the people were injured but the dog got what it deserved. The dog should have been on a leash to start with.
Does it say any where what sort of Monitor it actually was? Guess would be Lace but could of possibly been a Yellow Spotted or Sand also?
definitely a lacie
nuttylizardguy
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I suppose it's open season up there now on all BIG lizards.
Flaviemys purvisi
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Jack Russell Terriers, even ones depicted in the story that aren't pure bred should never be walked off leash... they are a genuine hunting breed right to their very core and will readily attack anything and everything regardless of its size, they have a bonafide No fear mentality. I'm 100% with you on this one that the elderly couple were in the wrong and the dog initiated the altercation... it's what JRT's do and do very well. My own Jack's admittedly and unfortunateky have dispatched several reptiles, snakes and monitors that have made it into my immediate house yard but whenever I'm out and about with them in the bush they are kept on a very short leash until our target (wild dogs) are acquired.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Dogs are mammals and they have emotions unlike reptiles. We lose around 5-10 dogs here on the central coast every year to snake bite, and it is always the dog attacking the snake because of protective or territorial instinct. They can be trained not to attack snakes and I have done it successfully with a Jack Russell in the past. I do know of a couple of food response attacks by pythons on puppies though.
Flaviemys purvisi
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Next to impossible to train the drive out of a purebred Jack Russell. Generations of line breeding have instilled it in them and to be honest, I wouldn't change it. My Jack's have saved my life a few times now from snakes.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
well I guess I achieved the impossible. Saved your life from snakes? A few times? Really?
Ive been relocating snakes for long enough to have ended up in positions where a bite on the face from a large ven could easily have occurred if the snake chose to, from being under cars to other tight situations where all you can do is remain still and hope for the best. I've had two bites from only mildly venomous species in 15 years and one of them was because I accidentally pinched the tail in a porta cot mechanism as I tried to get it out, therefore hurting the animal, which made it bite out of pain.
Never in all this time have I ever needed a dog or anything, or anyone to "save me" from a species of animal that wants nothing to do with us, regardless of how an encounter occurs. This includes dealings with large eastern browns and oversize blacks, large tigers, Stephen's, adders and also multiple sea snake encounters. The ONLY reason a snake will bite is out of defence or for food, so seeing that we aren't their food, that only leaves defence in your case, so you are obviously doing something wrong.
You should be very careful about your dogs taking on snakes, quite often they kill each other.
Ive also had plenty of dogs over the years and I have a pretty good understanding of their psychology, and looking at your photo it wouldn't be to much to say that at a guess with more than one dog they would act with a pack mentality when it comes to reptiles. Also read a post you put up about your dogs making chop suey from snake, which smacked of a proud little dog owner who couldn't give a #$@% if their dogs killed wildlife.
Ive been relocating snakes for long enough to have ended up in positions where a bite on the face from a large ven could easily have occurred if the snake chose to, from being under cars to other tight situations where all you can do is remain still and hope for the best. I've had two bites from only mildly venomous species in 15 years and one of them was because I accidentally pinched the tail in a porta cot mechanism as I tried to get it out, therefore hurting the animal, which made it bite out of pain.
Never in all this time have I ever needed a dog or anything, or anyone to "save me" from a species of animal that wants nothing to do with us, regardless of how an encounter occurs. This includes dealings with large eastern browns and oversize blacks, large tigers, Stephen's, adders and also multiple sea snake encounters. The ONLY reason a snake will bite is out of defence or for food, so seeing that we aren't their food, that only leaves defence in your case, so you are obviously doing something wrong.
You should be very careful about your dogs taking on snakes, quite often they kill each other.
Ive also had plenty of dogs over the years and I have a pretty good understanding of their psychology, and looking at your photo it wouldn't be to much to say that at a guess with more than one dog they would act with a pack mentality when it comes to reptiles. Also read a post you put up about your dogs making chop suey from snake, which smacked of a proud little dog owner who couldn't give a #$@% if their dogs killed wildlife.
Flaviemys purvisi
Very Well-Known Member
Yeah man honestly don't really give 2 ****s what you think. I stepped straight on a brown right on my back door step after getting home from work. I'm not a snake handler or experienced snake catcher and nor will I ever aspire to be, my dog is my go to ven snake handler and he is way more competent at it than I'll ever be. I live in the middle of suburbia in the concrete jungle and have 2 pre-teen daughters that play in our back yard. If there's vens that come onto my block and my dogs destroy them then they've earned their keep. Simple as that. Dead snake or dead daughter, real hard choice. Also my Jack's will act solo on a snake and tear it to pieces, pack mentality comes into play when they're hunting foxes or wild dogs. You wanna argue psychology and **** be my guest, changes nothing. I work with blokes that actively go out and shoot brown and black snakes 3 times a week around here with shot guns, I don't go looking for snakes to kill, never have never will, but my own back yard is a snake free zone for obvious reasons. Don't like my attitude or view on that, tell someone who cares. And I'll never worry about my dogs, they're Jacks, the most competent breed on the planet for snake handling other than a damn mongoose.
I also have about half a dozen resident blue tongues in my yard that have lived here well before I did and large green tree frogs that frolic around the back patio most summer nights... my dogs seem to know the difference between a harmless skink, frog and a deadly snake, they've never attacked a blue tongue or tree frog, they've never been trained to not do so. They make a hell of a racket and bail them up though but have never hurt one. So your pack mentality psychological analysis is complete BS. Don't act like you know me or my animals and experiences.... because, you don't have a ****ing clue.
And if a cat comes in the yard... better call the fire brigade.
And no I'm not a redneck who hates snakes and tries to kill them at every opportunity, I actually stop to get them off the road before some idiot swerves to run them over. So call me what you want, yep, my dogs killed a ven in my back yard... saved me and possibly my daughters a trip to emergency... and I am a proud little-big dog owner. Any other dog would be dead.
I also have about half a dozen resident blue tongues in my yard that have lived here well before I did and large green tree frogs that frolic around the back patio most summer nights... my dogs seem to know the difference between a harmless skink, frog and a deadly snake, they've never attacked a blue tongue or tree frog, they've never been trained to not do so. They make a hell of a racket and bail them up though but have never hurt one. So your pack mentality psychological analysis is complete BS. Don't act like you know me or my animals and experiences.... because, you don't have a ****ing clue.
And if a cat comes in the yard... better call the fire brigade.
And no I'm not a redneck who hates snakes and tries to kill them at every opportunity, I actually stop to get them off the road before some idiot swerves to run them over. So call me what you want, yep, my dogs killed a ven in my back yard... saved me and possibly my daughters a trip to emergency... and I am a proud little-big dog owner. Any other dog would be dead.
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Yellowtail
Very Well-Known Member
My German Shepherds will draw my attention to a snake and keep a safe distance till I come and remove it, they also herd people and other animals away from the danger and no I did not train them to do this but they have watched me removing snakes and are aware of my parrots or even wild birds calls when a snake is present.
That is intelligent behaviour not mindlessly attacking any snake, venomous or not.
That is intelligent behaviour not mindlessly attacking any snake, venomous or not.
Flaviemys purvisi
Very Well-Known Member
I have always had German shepherds, my dad was a huge fan of them and I grew up with shepherd's, getting another one in 2 months time, comparing them to other breeds, especially hunting breeds is like chalk and cheese. Shepherds are just that, shepherds, not hunters. Your dog is acting just like the breed was bred to, as are mine... Just like shepherd's are not sled dogs and beagles aren't guide dogs. Greyhounds aren't airport security dogs, farmers don't use daschunds to herd sheep and cattle... Every breed has its own unique traits.
If you want to talk intelligence when it comes to dogs, the top 15 most intelligent breeds on the planet, Jack's come in at #15 and shepherds come in at #3. Like I said, chalk and cheese in that department but when it comes to boldness, bravery, assertiveness, dominance and downright fearlessness, Jack's are #1.
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GBWhite
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Hi Cement. Been a while. I hope you're keeping well. Yeah I've bred and sold pure bred Jacks for the past 30 years and the ones I've kept have all been trained not to go any where near snakes or lizards (or our free range chooks for that matter). Not that hard really if you want to put in the time. I get plenty of RBB's, Common Tree Snakes, other small elapids, Carpets, Blue Tongues, Water Dragons & Lacies here pretty regularly and when one shows up they just stand off and bark.
There was an interesting project run by the University of Melbourne a couple of years ago where data collected showed around 70% of dogs bitten by snakes happened in the owner's yard and 1 in 10 bites happened to Jack Russell Terriers. Also have a lot of friends on properties around Inverell that keep them as snake and rodent catchers that have lost plenty over the years from snake bite. Seems that as good as they are they usually end up getting bitten.
Flaviemys purvisi
Very Well-Known Member
Lol classic. They breed 'em tougher up here even trained mine to fly in the back yard pool.. easy enough.
Seen a few foxies and Tenterfield Terriers wind up on the wrong end of a snake in these parts but no Jack's yet and don't know anyone here bitten by an RBB either.
Seen a few foxies and Tenterfield Terriers wind up on the wrong end of a snake in these parts but no Jack's yet and don't know anyone here bitten by an RBB either.
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sounds like a lot of he said she said, I'm not gonna get involved. I know that jacks are great rat killers, it's part of their DNA so that is probably part of their problem as well
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Wow, I'm not really sure what made you arc up so much there, FP are you feeling a bit sensitive today mate?Don't remember calling you anything except a proud little dog owner?? Redneck?? Thats your words, and if your not one then your work mates definitly are. Fark me, I'll tell you what though its pretty obvious you don't understand snakes, so all I'm doing is hopefully enlightening anybody who wants to listen about their instinctive behaviour. I'm not bullshitting when I say they kill each other, I have had Jack Russell killed here only last year, and as far as training them being near on impossible, it isn't. It also took me a week to catch the snake the dog didn't injure it at all in any way, so be warned. Thanks George.,... Yep I been well and had more fun doing the broad headed survey last month. Some very positive results.
Anyway, for you FP, I'll ignore your rant, though I did get a laugh so by all means keep em coming, but in the interest of doing the RIGHT thing, I'll even give you (and anyone else who cares) a few tips on how to be snake wise around the house, because I don't care how inflated your opinion of your dogs are, one day sooner or later if they attack vens
there's a pretty good chance they will die. Little dogs don't do very well at all with venom, and a RBBS will kill a Jack Russel no problem at all, and they aren't even considered that toxic. So if a brown gets a fang in, your dog will not survive, even if you get it to the vet alive, very unlikely... they will not be able to save it. The smallest dog I have seen survive a bite (and from only a 3ft RBBS) was a staffy, but it was a huge staffy (biggest I have ever seen) but it was touch and go and spent a week in at the vets costing the owner not hundreds but thousands. Ive always trained my dogs not to attack reptiles because I care about my dogs AND wildlife, and my wallet to be honest.
A brown snake that comes into your yard, and is at your backdoor is there for a reason. Food. Now if you feed your dogs in the back yard or have water bowls out for them, or even if you don't, (our houses breathe, and air comes in and out of them dragging the smell of food with it, under doors etc, depending on different air pressure inside and out. You can trust me on this I am actually a fully lic builder and chippy for over 30 years) Rats and mice know theres a water bowl, or tiny little food scraps, bones maybe and even if not they can smell what's in your house, and they want in. They do laps around our houses at 2-3am when no-ones around and leave a scent trail. The snakes follow this trail and that's why you have a snake at your backdoor. It is beneficial for people (especially if you know theres a ven hanging around, or a python for that matter, because they all work the same way) to hose down around your paths, decks, doors and even lower half of the walls (if its a grippy surface like bricks or cedar cladding that a rodent can climb) and wash away any scent. I would hate to hear of one of your daughters getting tagged, or your dogs, but you.......well ...yeah ok even you
Your daughters are old enough to know to give them a wide berth, and my advice is also to keep a Tupperware container with the correct type of bandages, or go online and buy the First Aid Kit for Bites and Stings from St Johns, and keep it where everyone knows and teach everyone how to apply. With the correct first aid there will be no deaths.
Even for dogs, the first aid is the same, but in the case of little dogs like yours it won't help, they just don't have the body mass, and dogs get bitten on the face usually the lips so it's hard to manage.
I don't know if there ever been any studies done on this but it may not be too wild a stab to say there could possibly be more snakes in suburbia and around housing then in the bush.
Anyway, for you FP, I'll ignore your rant, though I did get a laugh so by all means keep em coming, but in the interest of doing the RIGHT thing, I'll even give you (and anyone else who cares) a few tips on how to be snake wise around the house, because I don't care how inflated your opinion of your dogs are, one day sooner or later if they attack vens
there's a pretty good chance they will die. Little dogs don't do very well at all with venom, and a RBBS will kill a Jack Russel no problem at all, and they aren't even considered that toxic. So if a brown gets a fang in, your dog will not survive, even if you get it to the vet alive, very unlikely... they will not be able to save it. The smallest dog I have seen survive a bite (and from only a 3ft RBBS) was a staffy, but it was a huge staffy (biggest I have ever seen) but it was touch and go and spent a week in at the vets costing the owner not hundreds but thousands. Ive always trained my dogs not to attack reptiles because I care about my dogs AND wildlife, and my wallet to be honest.
A brown snake that comes into your yard, and is at your backdoor is there for a reason. Food. Now if you feed your dogs in the back yard or have water bowls out for them, or even if you don't, (our houses breathe, and air comes in and out of them dragging the smell of food with it, under doors etc, depending on different air pressure inside and out. You can trust me on this I am actually a fully lic builder and chippy for over 30 years) Rats and mice know theres a water bowl, or tiny little food scraps, bones maybe and even if not they can smell what's in your house, and they want in. They do laps around our houses at 2-3am when no-ones around and leave a scent trail. The snakes follow this trail and that's why you have a snake at your backdoor. It is beneficial for people (especially if you know theres a ven hanging around, or a python for that matter, because they all work the same way) to hose down around your paths, decks, doors and even lower half of the walls (if its a grippy surface like bricks or cedar cladding that a rodent can climb) and wash away any scent. I would hate to hear of one of your daughters getting tagged, or your dogs, but you.......well ...yeah ok even you
Your daughters are old enough to know to give them a wide berth, and my advice is also to keep a Tupperware container with the correct type of bandages, or go online and buy the First Aid Kit for Bites and Stings from St Johns, and keep it where everyone knows and teach everyone how to apply. With the correct first aid there will be no deaths.
Even for dogs, the first aid is the same, but in the case of little dogs like yours it won't help, they just don't have the body mass, and dogs get bitten on the face usually the lips so it's hard to manage.
I don't know if there ever been any studies done on this but it may not be too wild a stab to say there could possibly be more snakes in suburbia and around housing then in the bush.
Flaviemys purvisi
Very Well-Known Member
Good on ya, I read the 1st 3 lines of that and skipped to the end. Hardly need help regarding my dogs or snakes in the yard, not like it happens every day. But, it will happen again and I'll back the dog/s every time, regardless of your doubts/worries/opinions/superstitions/etc. Not our 1st rodeo, won't be our last.
There's one reason that snake was here... water. We're in drought, obviously, it's as dry as it's ever been and I keep turtles, my property has a pool and ponds. Water is the ONLY reason it was here and I'm not getting rid of them any time soon am I, so when the snakes come a calling, the dogs will do what they're here to do, serve and protect. If that upsets you in any way shape or form, well hey, this isn't Utopia.
There's one reason that snake was here... water. We're in drought, obviously, it's as dry as it's ever been and I keep turtles, my property has a pool and ponds. Water is the ONLY reason it was here and I'm not getting rid of them any time soon am I, so when the snakes come a calling, the dogs will do what they're here to do, serve and protect. If that upsets you in any way shape or form, well hey, this isn't Utopia.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Your a classic horn blower. You don't know sand from clay when it comes to snakes,.... except your own redneck fear.
Go back to your Jack Russell forum and talk your tough guy crap over there, at least you'll get the recognition you crave. You got all upset being proven wrong, don't like that aye?Can't train a Jack Russel..... shows how much you know about your favourite dog.
Upset me?? You couldn't rattle my cage if you beat it with a lead pipe you small minded imbecile. If I put my daughters heart in your chest it would rattle you to death.
I'm posting info for people who want to learn about snakes, if you want to go to a personal level, fine, but if your going to post crap like this it's pretty disrespectful to everyone who actually comes on here to learn about snakes or appreciates them.
Too the newbies out there that read these posts - This guy and his ideas are nothing but fear based and detrimental with a total lack of true care or responsibility towards wildlife or his own dogs. These ignorant, uneducated, fearful people are out there, but hey this ain't Utopia.
Go back to your Jack Russell forum and talk your tough guy crap over there, at least you'll get the recognition you crave. You got all upset being proven wrong, don't like that aye?Can't train a Jack Russel..... shows how much you know about your favourite dog.
Upset me?? You couldn't rattle my cage if you beat it with a lead pipe you small minded imbecile. If I put my daughters heart in your chest it would rattle you to death.
I'm posting info for people who want to learn about snakes, if you want to go to a personal level, fine, but if your going to post crap like this it's pretty disrespectful to everyone who actually comes on here to learn about snakes or appreciates them.
Too the newbies out there that read these posts - This guy and his ideas are nothing but fear based and detrimental with a total lack of true care or responsibility towards wildlife or his own dogs. These ignorant, uneducated, fearful people are out there, but hey this ain't Utopia.
Yellowtail
Very Well-Known Member
Cement, you are 100% right about food being the attraction, I live on 5 acres of mostly rainforest and surrounded by a nature reserve. I have aviary birds plus a large rodent breeding set-up that are a constant attraction to the local snakes of all types plus the odd lace monitor. I've stopped counting but the first year here I relocated over 30 snakes, mostly carpets but a few elapids including EB's and pesky Stephens that have a habit of getting under doors of my rodent areas and hiding under or in anything on the floor. I also have ponds, bird baths etc that attract plenty of wildlife but not snakes and I have not sighted a RBB so possibly the cane toads got them, locals tell me they used to be prolific.
Pauls_Pythons
Very Well-Known Member
Not wrong there. Mate of mine had a Staffy that was bitten by an EB. Cost him 14k in vets bills.
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