Help with ID'ing a snake

[MickeyB]

Hi,

Just stumbled across this little guy in my vegie patch, unfortunately for him (but I suppose fortunately for me seeing as I almost stood on him) the dog had gotten to him and he was dead.

However seeing as I have young kids and god forbid they ever get bitten, I just wondered if anyone could help with snake identification so that I'm at the very least basically aware of what's hanging around. I'm thinking it is an eastern brown, but the reddish tinge on the belly threw me a bit and I wondered if it was another variety? I'm in SE QLD.

Thanks
Mic

P.S I have a few more pics if these are no good.

 

[H.bitorquatus]

keelback, harmless

 

[Scleropages]

Sorry i can't 100% ID it but it looks like a keellback to me , EBs tend to have orange spots on the underside.

I am sure alot of people here will be able to 100% ID it for you.

 

[redbellybite]

sadly it is a harmless colubrid as was said 'keelback' ....eastern browns can come in a speckled pattern as such ..best to avoid any contact with snakes, that your not 100% sure on ..oh and try and keep your dog away too, as quite often not only does the snake die but so does your dog or you get a very expensive vet bill.

 

[MickeyB]

Thanks for the quick responses!

I'd never heard of a Keelback before, but yes looking it up now it definately looks closer to that than any others I've been looking at.

I've taught the kids to not go near snakes, and to come get one of us, but he was so blended into the dirt that I barely saw him till I was practically standing on him. He's a gorgeous little thing, quite pretty markings, and I was upset to find him dead, I tend to let them be if they're harmless and they move on out on their own. Normally the dog doesn't go for things like that, he's too interested in just lazing around, we have so many beardies that come in and he doesn't even bother with them.

I'll be keeping a closer eye out for any more wanderers though.

 

[redbellybite]

Best have the attitude to let all snakes move on their way regardless of species ...the only time you should be concerned and need to call a snake catcher is when you cant get away from the snake, hence being inside your car ..house ..if outside then you should be the one giving a wide berth and let it do its own thing ..people get this misconception, that if a venomous snake is in their garden /or back porch area, it must be there to do them harm ...and so it must be killed ..we need to change that attitude and get through to people that this is not so and all snakes if given the chance would rather flee and get away then stand and fight so to speak ...but sadly alot of people cant see it this way, so the poor reptile cops it even if it was doing only what comes naturally,like sunning itself or finding some shade ,after tucker that happens to be in a chook house or bird aviary....

 

[MickeyB]

Best have the attitude to let all snakes move on their way regardless of species ...the only time you should be concerned and need to call a snake catcher is when you cant get away from the snake, hence being inside your car ..house ..if outside then you should be the one giving a wide berth and let it do its own thing ..people get this misconception, that if a venomous snake is in their garden /or back porch area, it must be there to do them harm ...and so it must be killed ..we need to change that attitude and get through to people that this is not so and all snakes if given the chance would rather flee and get away then stand and fight so to speak ...but sadly alot of people cant see it this way, so the poor reptile cops it even if it was doing only what comes naturally,like sunning itself or finding some shade ,after tucker that happens to be in a chook house or bird aviary....

Yep agree 100% I'm very much anti-shovel I've never had to deal with a highly venomous snake in my yard, but with four kids, two of which are toddlers I'd rather let the harmless ones go their own way and have a venomous snake moved to a safer place for it's own well being. Better that than have it disappear somewhere else in the yard with the chance that the kids might startle it.

 

[-Matt-]

As has been said 100% a keelback, do you have a body of fresh water close by to your house? These littles guys are also called the Freshwater Snake and hang around water where they eat frogs and fish. Just a random piece of info for you - keelbacks are the only Australian snakes that can eat cane toads without any ill effects.

 

[bellslace]

Looks like Tropidonophis mairii "Mair's keeled snake".

 

[whcasual79]

looks like a keelback to me too .... i seen a few of them around here but mistook them for rough scaled snake ... but yea if you have a close up headshot, we can check out the loreal scales and then be sure if it's rough scaled or keelback ...

 

[MickeyB]

Is this a close enough shot of the head? If not I'll have to get it and take another pic.

As has been said 100% a keelback, do you have a body of fresh water close by to your house? These littles guys are also called the Freshwater Snake and hang around water where they eat frogs and fish. Just a random piece of info for you - keelbacks are the only Australian snakes that can eat cane toads without any ill effects.

We don't really live close to water at all, at most about 200-300m away from the nearest creek bed but that is dry 90% of the time. The other main one that does have water in it all the time would be close to 1km away. We very rarely get canetoads or frogs in our yard. Interesting though that it showed up here! Learn something new everyday.

 

[bellslace]

Ok, after the close up on the head maybe Tropidechis carinatus rough-scaled snake?

 

[GeckoJosh]

Ok, after the close up on the head maybe Tropidechis carinatus rough-scaled snake?

Why do you think its is not a keelback?

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day bellslace,

It's definitely a Keelback (without any APS humour)!

 

[bellslace]

Why do you think its is not a keelback?

Follow this link and read the description for Rough-scaled snake Tropidechis carinatus and then read the description for Keelback Tropidonophis mairii (also known as freshwater snake).

Snakes of South-East Queensland (Department of Environment and Resource Management)

Then go and search some pictures from various sites, do not go by colour or pattern as this varies greatly from one individual to the next but focus on the head. A keelback has larger eyes and a rounded snout/nose. The snake in mickeyb's pictures has smaller eyes and a head shaped more like a shovel. The average size of a keelback is 0.5m and the average size of a rough-scaled snake is 1m. The snake pictured is closer to 1m. In the description of both species it makes note of how 1 is often mistaken for the other.

I can also only make out 1 line between the eye and nostril (indicating 2 scales not 3) no loreal scale. The snake mickeyb found IMO is a rough-scaled snake.

And Johno..... thanks for your input anyway.....!

 

[-Matt-]

Bellslace it is a keelback, there is no doubt about it. It is very easy to tell keelbacks and rough-scaled snakes apart especially after you have seen a lot of both species in the wild.

 

[nathancl]

hahaha how embaressing for you bellslace its clearly a keelback no doubt about it. perhaps its harder for those who havent seen alot of both to tell but to me it was a 100 percent from first glance

 

[waruikazi]

As has been said 100% a keelback, do you have a body of fresh water close by to your house? These littles guys are also called the Freshwater Snake and hang around water where they eat frogs and fish. Just a random piece of info for you - keelbacks are the only Australian snakes that can eat cane toads without any ill effects.

That is actually not true. They cannot survive on eating cane toads and larde doses of cane toad toxins will knock them off. The toxin certaintly does have a negative effect on them.

Follow this link and read the description for Rough-scaled snake Tropidechis carinatus and then read the description for Keelback Tropidonophis mairii (also known as freshwater snake).

Snakes of South-East Queensland (Department of Environment and Resource Management)

Then go and search some pictures from various sites, do not go by colour or pattern as this varies greatly from one individual to the next but focus on the head. A keelback has larger eyes and a rounded snout/nose. The snake in mickeyb's pictures has smaller eyes and a head shaped more like a shovel. The average size of a keelback is 0.5m and the average size of a rough-scaled snake is 1m. The snake pictured is closer to 1m. In the description of both species it makes note of how 1 is often mistaken for the other.

I can also only make out 1 line between the eye and nostril (indicating 2 scales not 3) no loreal scale. The snake mickeyb found IMO is a rough-scaled snake.

And Johno..... thanks for your input anyway.....!

Easiest way to tell the difference between the two from a head shot bells is that a keelback's mouth turns upward where the top and bottom jaw meet. Like it has a grin, rough scales have a straight lined mouth. This is definately a keelback.

Roughie (see how the mouth is in a straightline from nose to jaw hing?)

and keelback showing the 'grin.'

 

[bellslace]

hahaha how embaressing for you bellslace its clearly a keelback no doubt about it. perhaps its harder for those who havent seen alot of both to tell but to me it was a 100 percent from first glance

nathancl, if once in a blue moon I get it wrong than thats better than 90% of the people here who are wrong most of the time (unfortunately). Embarrassed....?no proved wrong, I will concede to that but only now based on the photo waruikazi has shown me because hours of searching showed me no keelbacks that look like the 1 pictured below(and no I have not seen many). If I had seen waruikazi's photo I would have leant towards keelback which was actually what I initially said.

waruikazi thank you for that info, where did you get that picture from?

 

[nathancl]

lol sorry about that bellslace was a bit of a negative post. just thought it was funny that you thanked someone for their imput and were wrong yourself.

it can be difficult i suppose if you have not seen a few of both to be able to make an instant comparison.

shame about the keelback.

nice comparison waruikazi