How to give HERPABOOST to my old water skink Wriggles

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kingofnobbys

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I stopped giving her softened pellets (mix of repcal juvenile beardie pellets and vetafarm lizard pellets) and backed off on the higher quality insect protein (medium crickets) recently after she passed a "stone",and upped the more fatty insect protein, offered her small silkworms = no interest (too big (20mm , now have some even smaller silkworms arrived today (5 - 15mm long and will try offering a 10mm silkworm to her tomorrow) first lizard I heard of refusing silkworms !!

She has gained a tiny bit of weight since her diet was changed , not enough to see though. No more big "stones" but some smaller ones (that she passed OK with only a little help if I saw she wanted to go, no more straining though to do a deposit.

This week she started refusing food , even her favs of mealworms lavae and pupae for the last 3- 4 days (I am in the habit of handfeeding her insects to her once per day) , I think she may be sick , but she also quite old , older than 5 years I think , and might be slowing down with age .
She hasn't shed for a long while .... but usually she's OK with her eating in the lead up to a shed.

Sometimes in the last few days she has worried me because she has been breathing hard with an open mouth and even sneezing occasionally (usually while worm goo on her snout/nose (I try not to cover her nostrils but she is a wriggler, other (mostly) times she seems to breath normally (if it was an RI she'd be having trouble all the time ????).

I've bumped up her heatpad temp to 36oC in the hope it will help her, and replaced all her bedding with fresh clean scot-towels and F10ed her big 20L tub and all her stuff JIC. I've also replaced her UVB150 globe with a new one , old one was 12 months old but her UV schedule has been 1 hr per day for long time (based on my observations of wild water skinks in my garden who only bask for short periods).
I've also this week started adding a small amount of CalciVet solution to her drinking water since the worms are so low in calcium (as per their dosing guide).

Have some HerpaBoost and some CrittaCare . both seem very thick , I just can't get the 5ml syringe with a blunt 18G medical drawing up needle to suck it up.
I have a medical grade disposable syringe with a 18G 1.5TW (1.2 x38mm) w/out bevel drawing up needle and I simply can't get the above to draw up into the syringe. I don't know the bore of these metal needles.

What do you guys use with you small skinks, geckos , etc who are only about 30g to give these by mouth to them .... ? what size /bore tube / needle ?
I've ordered a 14G , 16G and 18G cropping needled (for oral feeding of small birds) , are these suitable for the job of giving HerpaBoost and CrittaCare by syringe , has anyone a recommended cropping/feeding needle size for use with HerpaBoost and CrittaCare based on experience using these ? (I can always return the wrong sized needle to the supplier.)


How do get these little reptiles to open their mouths without hurting them to get the tube or feeding needle in ?

Should I just put the dose on her nose one drop at a time and hope she licks it off rather than rubbing her nose on my hand or shirtfront ?
 
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Lizzie might just be getting old.

Wally, if you don't have anything helpful to add, don't post anything, and for your information this is a captive bred water skink called Wriggles that I bought several years ago.

Lizzie is a good name for pet lizard, I might use it one day.
 
I think there might be something to do with Wriggles (cute name lol) getting older but could you post a pic of the syringe? Maybe you could hold her (not uncomfortably but tightly) and try getting the syringe in by trying to stimulate her to bite it or open her mouth. I have no experience with this but it's an idea. Good luck with "Lizzie" (I couldn't resist).

Lizzie is my Blue tongues name. Her previous owners named her this and it's a decent name.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually the nose droplet thing sounds like a sensible idea
 
Tried giving her another feed , this time a squeezed out cricket - no go, a squeezed out mealworm - no go, a squeezed out mealworm pupae (maybe some was eaten), dabbed the gooy goodness on her nose and lips.
Not really breathing through mouth , except when I accidently blocked her nostils with insect goo.

Giving her long go under her UVB150 today ( will give her about 4 hours and taken her hide out so she can't seek the shade ).... maybe the extra dose of UVA will stimulate her to eat this afternoon or tomorrow.

Was crawling all over me when I had her out this morning (usual behaviour, up the chest onto the shoulders to the back of my neck, to eventually come back down and snuggle into my elbow ) to try an earlier feeding than the usual 7pm.

Never cared for an elderly lizard before , is refusing food (offered daily) a common behaviour when they get old, as well longer periods between sheds ?
 
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Wally might be right. Could just be getting old. Lot's of animals refuse to eat as they age.

Love the title by the way! ;)
 
A few years ago i had some very young coastal (4 weeks) who refused to eat, and as i detest trying to force feed whole pinkies i made a gentle force feeder (if you could call it that) by putting together a football inflater tip a small piece of fish tank air hose and a medium size syringe, i used the football inflater tip because it had a nice smooth rounded end and would be hard to cause damage if careful, i squished up a couple of pinkies in a mortar and pestle (wife not amused) and spooned it into the syringe, it worked very well, was easy to insert down the throat of the young coastal and because of the larger bore than a syringe type needle was very easy to push the mush through, this could also be used to feed mushed up crickets, meal worms and the like or just to get some water into wriggles without causing damage to its mouth. :) ..................Ron
 
A few years ago i had some very young coastal (4 weeks) who refused to eat, and as i detest trying to force feed whole pinkies i made a gentle force feeder (if you could call it that) by putting together a football inflater tip a small piece of fish tank air hose and a medium size syringe, i used the football inflater tip because it had a nice smooth rounded end and would be hard to cause damage if careful, i squished up a couple of pinkies in a mortar and pestle (wife not amused) and spooned it into the syringe, it worked very well, was easy to insert down the throat of the young coastal and because of the larger bore than a syringe type needle was very easy to push the mush through, this could also be used to feed mushed up crickets, meal worms and the like or just to get some water into wriggles without causing damage to its mouth. :) ..................Ron

That's a good idea. But she's so tiny, only 30g and I don't want to hurt her in the process.

She's usually a champ on the hang feeding , loves it and even licks my finger clean , and usually likes a midnight raid (softened pellets mix and 2 or 3 disabled sml / med crickets that I took to leaving for her to hunt down each night) .... very unusual for her to refuse a daily feeding

She seems a bit more active today, moving about her tub to thermoregulate and I saw her have a BIG drink of water and then climb into her water dish and have a bath and a bit of splash about ---- looked very much how I am used to seeing while doing that - bright eyed and obviously enjoying it , back to sitting about with her eyes closed but her head raised , breathing seems regular and normal at present ....

Not sure if she's eaten any of the softened mixed juvenile beardie pellets / vertafarm lizard pellets mixed with a little grated carrot and come small bits of buk choy sweetened with mashed banana and a little manuka honey or not. Been there since last night and I just freshed it up with a wee squirt or water. So she has food there if she wants it.

Will try handfeeding again this evening (she's used to feeding about diner time).

Have some special feeding needles on the way (Gauge 18, 16 and 14 that I'll try using to force feed her some HerpaBoost and / or CrittaCare when they arrive by syringe).

- - - Updated - - -

Advise give (email) from VetaFarm staff regarding using HerpaBoost via feeding syringe.
Thank you for your email.
You may find it easier to mix the herpaboost with a little warm water – so measure the dose by sucking up with the syringe only ( no needle ).
You will then add a small amount of hot water and mix. The best medication needle to use will be either be a 14g or 16g needle.


Posted this here as I'm sure others will likely have the same problem and will want to know how to actually administer herpaboost to their SMALL reptile.
 
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Wriggles passed away yesterday while napping in her hide on her heatpad.

Vet has had a look and says she had some kind of advanced cancer inside her, says there is nothing he could have done even if I'd taken her to him when she started showing signs of being sick.
No "stones" inside her lower intestines that he could see , or inside her other plumbing, he has no idea why she passing them, thinks it may be symptomatic of the cancer which was in several places internally.

So the outcome is she had an advanced aggressive cancer and that along with her advanced age for a water skink (very old at over 7 years old - checked my keepers' records) and her heart just stopped.

She showed no indications of being sick when he did her annual checkup back in September.

Rest in peace lovely little Wriggles , I'm going to really miss you. :(
 
She sounds like she died calmly. Good luck. RIP Wriggles.
 
Wriggles passed away yesterday while napping in her hide on her heatpad.

Vet has had a look and says she had some kind of advanced cancer inside her, says there is nothing he could have done even if I'd taken her to him when she started showing signs of being sick.
No "stones" inside her lower intestines that he could see , or inside her other plumbing, he has no idea why she passing them, thinks it may be symptomatic of the cancer which was in several places internally.

So the outcome is she had an advanced aggressive cancer and that along with her advanced age for a water skink (very old at over 7 years old - checked my keepers' records) and her heart just stopped.

She showed no indications of being sick when he did her annual checkup back in September.

Rest in peace lovely little Wriggles , I'm going to really miss you. :(

I know how much you get attached to your critters and am very sorry for your loss.

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering...How did the vet confirm she had an advanced cancer, no "stones and that her "plumbing" was alright? Where was the cancer located? Did he do an autopsy? X-ray?

I'm not trying to be nasty or any thing I'm just curious as all the symptoms you described prior to her passing just seemed to be consistent with old age and a lizard that was at the end of her time.

Cheers,

George
 
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I know how much you get attached to your critters and am very sorry for your loss.

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering...How did the vet confirm she had an advanced cancer, no "stones and that her "plumbing" was alright? Where was the cancer located? Did he do an autopsy? X-ray?

I'm not trying to be nasty or any thing I'm just curious as all the symptoms you described prior to her passing just seemed to be consistent with old age and a lizard that was at the end of her time.

Cheers,

George
Necropsy , opened her up and looked. I wanted to really know if I had some infectious desease to worry about , no sign of that. (No URI).
Most her major organs were invaded. He couldn't tell me the kind of cancer without sending samples off for very expensive tests - nothing to gain by spending hundreds on these and it'll do Wriggles no good.
I told him about the "stones" and showed him the ones I'd collected over the last month so he looked for them as part of the procedure.


I don't know what the maximum age expectancy for a water skink is , was hoping she'd last a while longer.
 
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I think she outlived many of her cousins. I remember you recommending water skinks to me a while back. You speak so highly of them, I'm definitely getting one in future.
 
Very sorry for your loss buddy, i know how i felt when my big girl (Intergrade) passed away, all i could think of for the longest time was "I wonder if there was something else i could have done" it's never easy, RIP Wriggles. :( ...................Ron
 
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