License caps

[morelia_mdv]

Hi, i was woundring, how many reptiles can you keep on an qld rwl. I know everyone says 5, but i had a look on the site. For example, a carpet python is listed as a recreational animal, and for the standard rwl it says you can keep up to 300 recrational, commercial and controlled reptiles. Some help please as i am very confused.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[SirScience]

I'm also interested this, and similar if limits apply to commercial license.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[baker]

As far as I am aware the Queensland licensing and regulations for keeping native species (reptiles,amphibians,birds) is still under review and being updated.

As part of these updates, DES tried to have it passed that under a RWL people would only be able to keep 5 animals in total regardless of species or group (i.e, you could have 5 snakes, or 1 snake 4 lizards, or 2 birds 1 snake 2 lizards but that is it). This of course triggered a rather large backlash from keepers (both reptile and birds) and subsequent counter-proposals and talks have been underway between interest groups and DES to try and work towards a more reasonable and less restrictive licensing system. It appears these counter-proposals have been somewhat successful in getting the limit raised up to a more reasonable 300 individuals, however this is still a significant decline from the previous unlimited cap that was on RWLs. However, as far as I'm aware nothing has been officially past or put into legislation yet, so it is interesting to see DES advertising that RWL license holders are limited to 300 animals.

As with many keepers in Queensland I am still currently awaiting and am interested in seeing what the final licensing system and limits will be once everything is passed and official.

Hopefully this helps clear up some of your confusion as to what is occurring,

Cheers, Cameron

 

[morelia_mdv]

As far as I am aware the Queensland licensing and regulations for keeping native species (reptiles,amphibians,birds) is still under review and being updated.

As part of these updates, DES tried to have it passed that under a RWL people would only be able to keep 5 animals in total regardless of species or group (i.e, you could have 5 snakes, or 1 snake 4 lizards, or 2 birds 1 snake 2 lizards but that is it). This of course triggered a rather large backlash from keepers (both reptile and birds) and subsequent counter-proposals and talks have been underway between interest groups and DES to try and work towards a more reasonable and less restrictive licensing system. It appears these counter-proposals have been somewhat successful in getting the limit raised up to a more reasonable 300 individuals, however this is still a significant decline from the previous unlimited cap that was on RWLs. However, as far as I'm aware nothing has been officially past or put into legislation yet, so it is interesting to see DES advertising that RWL license holders are limited to 300 animals.

As with many keepers in Queensland I am still currently awaiting and am interested in seeing what the final licensing system and limits will be once everything is passed and official.

Hopefully this helps clear up some of your confusion as to what is occurring,

Cheers, Cameron

Thanks cameron. Sorry but is it a yes or no?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[baker]

If DES has it up on their site as 300, it's a cap of 300. Whether it remains a cap of 300 is still in the air, but currently I would follow what they officially say on their website.

It is also worth reading through the conditions on your RWL as it will tell you what cap you are under. If you got your license before the changes came into effect last year, your license will remain under the old unlimited cap until you renew it. For example I had to renew my license 2 years ago, and as such I am still allowed unlimited non-venomous species until I renew my license again.

Cheers Cameron

 

[morelia_mdv]

Ok thanks. I had a look on the gov website, and it dosent really say, other than that you can only keep 2 restricted animals. I did get my license last year, but the website/license conditions havent seemed to change.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[nuttylizardguy]

anyone who has that many reptiles in not a hobbyist, but a commercial operation and needs to be licenced accordingly and subject to very stringent regulations .

 

[RoryBreaker]

anyone who has that many reptiles in not a hobbyist, but a commercial operation and needs to be licenced accordingly and subject to very stringent regulations .

Not necessarily so.

I found from my own reptile journey that numbers can easily build up on you. For example, you may have a specific interest in a couple of genus' and want to acquire the whole set of species, they breed, you swap for more with friends..... and before you know it you have a very large collection. Just because you have a large collection doesn't make you commercial. I hardly sold stuff to anyone, generally just offloaded excess to friends.

The only limiting factors on overall numbers are $$$ and time. In my own experience, it was the time factor that made me skrink the collection once the wife was put into foal. Then the kids shrunk the available $$$ too.

But that doesn't happen to a keeper overnight, in my instance thats over 25+years.

Asking government authorities for more regulations is just plain crazy.

 

[Kyle Hamilton]

Some one could have 300 reptiles at any one time and do thousands of transactions per year ,sounds like they put the whole thing in the too hard basket for better or worse ,NSW and south australia are certainly dragging the chain also like they just dont know how to deal with the bull they grasped by the horns .

 

[Licespray]

Ok thanks. I had a look on the gov website, and it dosent really say, other than that you can only keep 2 restricted animals. I did get my license last year, but the website/license conditions havent seemed to change.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

So what are “restricted animals” anyways?

 

[morelia_mdv]

So what are “restricted animals” anyways?

Apparently they're animals such as the australian green tree python, the woma python, bells turtle, elapids and so on.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[nuttylizardguy]

300 animals is not a hobby , it's a business and I think would only effect a handful of keepers.

 

[Neil j]

300 animals is not a hobby , it's a business and I think would only effect a handful of keepers.

I disagree, even a amateur breeder can clock this numbers in no time. Say you have 50 animals and do 8 pairings you going to go over. I would never have 300. No room here but it wouldn’t be very hard. Anyway just out of respect for friends with large collections completely disagree.

 

[Yellowtail]

300 animals is not uncommon with bird keepers that are not a "business" There would be hundreds if not thousands of large bird collections in Australia.
A survey done by Reptiles Australia magazine years ago confirmed a large number of private collections in the hundreds of animals.
If you breed pythons (or lizards) to develop particular characteristics you can very easily have over 100 hatchlings from various parents in a season, you keep some with breeding potential and sell the rest to cover your costs. Does that make you a "business"?

 

[longirostris]

300 animals is not a hobby , it's a business and I think would only effect a handful of keepers.

That's the second time in this thread you've made this comment, in spite of the fact that several people have already disagreed with you. I ignored the first post even though I did actually want to point out that your view was patently wrong. There doesn't seem to be any reasoning with you which I find interesting particularly given this is the very position of QLD DES and is one of the cornerstones for their justification for some of their ridiculous proposed changes to the regulations regarding wildlife keeping in that State. I wonder what would make your view so strident on this issue??

Just so you get it, a collection of 300 or more animals does not of itself constitute that that collection is a business. The ATO requires several tests that must be satisfied before an activity can be classified as a business. I am not going to go through them or list them, suffice to say though your comment is short sighted and unnecessarily provocative given it plays right into the hands of regulators trying to restrict our activities.

I know dozens of people who maintain large private collections of reptiles (not to mention birds) that are nothing more than hobbyists. I also know people who maintain smaller collections that are actually legally running their collections as a business registered for tax purposes with the ATO.

I wish I could qualify as a business with my collection and more importantly its costs to maintain it. By your reckoning I should have no issues with lodging my $30,000 to $40,000 worth of annual operating costs as legitimite expenses against a virtually zero income. Not hard to set up a company and run the losses through that and accrue them against other businesses or income being generated elsewhere. I have more than 300 Australian dragon lizards in my collection spread across 33 species. I would love for the ATO to adopt your point of view.

I don't think so.

Mark Hawker

 

[dragonlover1]

300 animals is not uncommon with bird keepers that are not a "business" There would be hundreds if not thousands of large bird collections in Australia.
A survey done by Reptiles Australia magazine years ago confirmed a large number of private collections in the hundreds of animals.
If you breed pythons (or lizards) to develop particular characteristics you can very easily have over 100 hatchlings from various parents in a season, you keep some with breeding potential and sell the rest to cover your costs. Does that make you a "business"?

Not at all, my very first year I only bred 1 pair of central beardies and 1 pair of pygmy beardies and had over 180 hatchies. If I bred all 6 pairs that I have now I would be in trouble, but I also have some little pythons I would like to breed not to mention my lace monitors........

 

[Fall guys]

i wouldnt consider anything a business unless you're marketing, with advertising + paying staff/ have others run the place

 

[dragonlover1]

i wouldnt consider anything a business unless you're marketing, with advertising + paying staff/ have others run the place

you don't need employees to be a business, I am a company (Pty Ltd), I am a self employed truckie.I have no employees except myself

 

[nuttylizardguy]

i wouldnt consider anything a business unless you're marketing, with advertising + paying staff/ have others run the place

Don't need to be employing anyone other yourself to be "in business" , a lot "one man / woman bands" around who are doing very nicely and making significant $ profit / income from their little business (and sometimes not so little business).
I've been there done that for a while , converted a lifelong hobby and interest into a income stream , that I only closed down as I was burning my candle at both ends (working fulltime with lots of overtime , weekends and callins , doing postgrad studies , and running a specialist mailorder business selling high end telescope optics and components source from all over the world ) , premium quality telescopes , big 80mm and bigger binoculars , and cameras from my study in the evenings - was profitable but hard on family life and something had to give , especially when I was considering retiring (which I was able to do at 50 years old when I become debt free).

There are also lots of one man businesses who run to make a loss that's offset against their principle fulltime job's income tax. Works for some if they are building up collateral by doing so.

 

[Neil j]

I’ve never made a dime in the long run selling snakes all my money goes back into the snakes, morphs, food, my parents.