MBD

[Sheldon222]

Hi All
One more question, on my 'i lost my bobtail' thread I posted a picture of it a couple months after I found it. It was so skinny that it's back was flat, up by shoulders was very triangle shaped, and the rest, literally flat.

Someone mentioned MBD, I'd not heard of this. I've always thought it's shape was bad, but I'd never seen a skinny one like this either.

I've taken this pic today, is the consensus that it could be MBD?

Otherwise it's extremely healthy now compared to feb, but I don't understand why a lizard would be that thin (not as per the pic) so close after spring. Can anyone share any reason?

This one will be released in Spring

 

[nuttylizardguy]

Looks like MBD to me.

This is what a healthy shingleback looks like :

I don't believe it can reversed (completely) . But can be stopped from progressing to point of crippling the reptile with an adequate calcium fortified diet & good access to daily UVB to help the reptile produce vitD3 and the produce a good bone structure.

Metabolic Bone Disease (or MBD for short) is caused by a lack of 2 things in their diet:

• a lack of calcium
• a lack of the vitamin D3

Both of these are crucial.

The calcium is needed for their bones, teeth and maintenance of other bodily processes and the vitamin D3 is needed in order to metabolize and process the calcium.

No vitamin D3 = your animal will not process any calcium that it eats.

MBD in blue-tongues tends to develop from circumstances where:

• pet owners do not have a UV-B light set up in the cage (or frequently take their pet outside in the sunshine)
• pet owners do not provide a balanced diet (protein, vegetables and calcium supplementation)

Symptoms
A lot of times, reptile owners don’t recognize that their pet has developed MBD until it is in full-effect and the symptoms are extremely obvious.

Some of the first symptoms that you’ll be able to observe are:

• lethargy
• a lump developing on and around the back of the reptile <=== your Shingle back has this.
• muscle twitches particularly on their limbs

The lumps are what you’ll need to check for. They will be squishy and soft, and often near the lower end of their back.

As MBD develops, other symptoms that develop are:

• problems opening and closing their jaw, inability to eat properly, very soft jaws
• having great difficulty walking
• tremors or seizures
• partial paralysis of their limbs or body parts

If left untreated, MBD often results in a crippled animal or death.

What to Do
The overwhelming vast majority of the time, MBD is caused by poor husbandry.

If you notice the onset of some of the earlier symptoms of MBD, you’ll need to correct them as soon as possible.

This entails

• adding a calcium and phosphorus-free supplement (preferably with vitamin D3 added) to its food
• ensuring that you have a working UV-B light
• ensuring that your temperature gradient, as well as basking temperature are proper and that your animals is basking
• fixing your pet’s diet (using a good quality source of protein, greens and gut-loaded insects as your main foods)

With early symptoms, you can fix metabolic bone disease by simply fixing what you have been doing wrong.

Unfortunately, when you start to notice a lot of the more serious problems, you’ll also need to take the animal to the vet.

Your vet will then be able to ascertain the cause of the animal’s condition as well give you advice on what to do next.

A balanced diet can be found here :
https://www.completecritter.com/blue-tongue-skink.html , unless someone knows better , I'd be following this with a shingleback skink too (less the mice).

Insects that are excellent feeders for a shingleback ( very rich in Ca , high in protein ) include :
blowfly gents & pupae
BSFL lavae & pupae
silkworms (especially if fed fresh mulberry leaves (these have Ca/P about 10) and boost the Ca/P of the worms who have eaten them).

I'd be giving leafy greens rich in Ca ( ie Ca/P > 2 ) as indicated here : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html


I suggest you ask a local reptile vet to assess your shingleback and he'll help you come up with a treatment plan for it based on it's current condition. Will be money well spent IMO.

I also suggest making sure the skink has access to adequate basking and warm zone temperatures & a 10%UVB t5 tube in a reflector hood positioned about 11 inches from the basking spot , you may need to house it inside to ensure it has a better chance of recovering , and depending on it's mobility , perhaps restrict options to climb in it's tank as it's bones are in a weakened state and are prone to fractures until you can build up it's bone density .

I think based on what you told us in the other thread , that this unfortunate shingleback has been a very neglected pet and never learnt to fend for itself in the wild ,and it's previous keeper was dumped it when they got bored with it or found out it had MBD .
I strongly suggest keeping it as it's unlikely to survive being released or if you are not able to keep it I'd be rehoming it with someone who has some knowhow about caring for skinks .

If you lived near me I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'm sure there will be others here who live near you who are similarly disposed.

 

[Sheldon222]

Thank you for your reply
You are exactly right in what I was getting at with the MBD, has this lizard been a dumped pet, because that changes the release aspect.

Once fed and warm it's gained weight like nobody's business, and I was confused at how it got so thin in the abundant spring, but that would explain it.

I have a large yard so come spring I will create a more natural enclosure outside, I have a UV light inside and it's been curled up on the heated mat for the last few days. Poor thing.

 

[nuttylizardguy]

Thank you for your reply
You are exactly right in what I was getting at with the MBD, has this lizard been a dumped pet, because that changes the release aspect.

Once fed and warm it's gained weight like nobody's business, and I was confused at how it got so thin in the abundant spring, but that would explain it.

I have a large yard so come spring I will create a more natural enclosure outside, I have a UV light inside and it's been curled up on the heated mat for the last few days. Poor thing.

I think he or she is your pet now . And this shingleback is lucky it found someone like you .

What temperature are you running the heatpad at ?
I think something in the range 30degC to 35degC would be good to aid it's digestion and calcium metabolism.
I'd be looking at adding an overhead basking globe to give it a nice thermal gradient to move through. A Philips 80W par38 that's a colorless domestic incandescent flood globe will likely give you a nice basking spot (I'd use a paver or a floor tile that will soak up some warmth) , these are available at the local Bunnings.

Housing required :

Housing Requirements


Shingleback Lizards do not adapt well to humid conditions, such as the conditions that occur on the east coast of Australia. In these conditions they will die, usually from a respiratory disorder or septicemia associated with skin infections, often secondary to sloughing problems, unless appropriate housing is arranged.
The enclosure should have a relative humidity of less than 40% (Bellamy pers. comm., Houston pers. comm.). The micro climate of indoor and outdoor enclosures can be controlled. The enclosure can be designed to reduce relative humidity. Considerations need to be made with surface area of water bowl, ventilation, no fleshy live plants and the use of dry absorbent substrate (Green 2001, Houston pers. comm., pers. obs.).

East of the Great Dividing Range Shingleback Lizards should be kept indoors due to high relative humidity although they may be kept outdoors during dry periods (Houston pers. comm.).

Shingle back Lizards have a high UV requirement.

During the active months they should have a light cycle of 14 light : 10 dark, with temperatures from 24oC (cool zone) to 34oC (warm zone).
During torpor they should have a light cycle of 10 light : 14 dark, with temperatures overnight 12oC to 17oC.

and

Temperature Requirements


The Shingleback lizards preferred body temperature (PBT) is 33oC, and critical thermal max temperature is around 45oC (Watharow 2003).
A thermal gradient must be provided (24 to 34oC).
This can be achieved by putting the heat source to one end of the enclosure in indoor enclosures.

refer to http://nswfmpa.org/Husbandry Manuals/Published Manuals/Reptilia/Shingleback Lizard.pdf

 

[Sheldon222]

Hi
Thank you.
The heat pad is about 30-35, I bought a UV bulb from the pet shop, but I've never seen it lie under there.

Is there any way to apply for a licence in a case like this?

It's really quite an incredible thing all up that it just appeared in my lawn that day. I wouldn't believe it myself if it wasn't me!

 

[nuttylizardguy]

Hi
Thank you.
The heat pad is about 30-35, I bought a UV bulb from the pet shop, but I've never seen it lie under there.

Is there any way to apply for a licence in a case like this?

It's really quite an incredible thing all up that it just appeared in my lawn that day. I wouldn't believe it myself if it wasn't me!

see my pm