Mixed species vivaria in zoos

[CGSwans]

I went to Melbourne Zoo yesterday, and of course I spent the obligatory hour or so in the reptile house. I'm a frequent zoo visitor (I like animals and photography, so that's a no brainer) but yesterday made me think of something that is often taken as a given in the reptile-keeping world: that mixed species enclosures are not on.

Off the top of my head, Melbourne Zoo has the following (and this is probably not a complete list):
- Philippine sailfin dragons and Asian box turtles.
- Dwarf bearded dragons and pygmy mulga monitors.
- A veiled chameleon and a rhinoceros viper.
- Boa constrictors and green iquanas.
- Hosmer's skinks, a northern blue-tongue and ridge-tailed monitor.
- Honduran milk snake and emerald tree boa.
- Mangrove snakes and blood python.

That's before you get to the separate question of them apparently keeping snakes of the same species together quite successfully. I saw banded rock rattlesnakes, black-headed pythons and taipans in the same enclosure.

So. What do we think? Is it that the conventional wisdom is wrong, and mixed-species enclosures are in fact more achievable than usually claimed? Are our zoological institutions taking drastic risks with their collections, and if so shouldn't we be protesting? Is it simply that zoos have the time and resources to create large and well supervised enclosures so that animals aren't crowded and potential mismatches can be removed quickly?

BTW - I'm not trying to argue any one of those three explanations. This is a genuine invitation to debate the topic, which I think is a good subject for discussion.

CG

 

[Lockie]

if they're not fed properly, the BHP's will eat eachother! Not sure about the others; I dont know much about Taipans or rattlesnakes.

 

[notechistiger]

It's fine as long as there is enough room for them to move without crashing into each other. Although, the chameleon and viper together is a bit questionable.

 

[Kirby]

Igs and Boa's... how insane..

i would spit my drink on the keepers... and backhand slap them..


the mixes you have mentioned are ridiculous... what ever happened to Zoo's showing natural animals and enclosures, let alone showing mixed nation and predatory animals..

 

[mckellar007]

with the knowledge that they have, that would have atleast some idea of what goes well together. i house a couple of different species together without any problems, but i wouldnt be putting chameleon and vipers or boas together, i dont have much idea on the subject, but i would see that as a high risk senario. but if you think about it, if its not something it naturally eats, or if its something that occurs in the same area naturally there might be some way in which they benifit each other and therefore leave each other alone....

 

[Varanus1]

Igs and Boa's... how insane..

i would spit my drink on the keepers... and backhand slap them..


the mixes you have mentioned are ridiculous... what ever happened to Zoo's showing natural animals and enclosures, let alone showing mixed nation and predatory animals..

I'm sorry mate, but what you're saying is downright rude. Have you actually been to the Melbourne Zoo? If you have, i'm sure that you would be able to comment on the number of large, well planted or landscaped enclosures, fitted to suit the correct environment of the species contained. The animals there are well maintained, and this is reflected in the longevity of their captive specimens (since I first moved to Melbourne 10 years ago, none of the animals listed to my knowledge have passed away, and I visit the zoo regularly). As for the listed mixes, all the species kept in mixed enclosures are known to occur in the same area. Take the Chameleon (which is a Jackson's Chameleon , NOT a Veiled) and The Rhinoceros viper, which are housed in the same enclosure. Both of these species are known to have occured in the same habitat (montane forests of Kenya) and fill a different ecological niche. The chameleon spends all its time climbing the tall branches of the enclosure, while the viper is strictly terrestrial. They almost never meet, and even if they do, the chameleon is not a normal part of the vipers diet, so is left alone. No problem there.

Please research into a post before making harsh comments.

Regards,
Trent.

 

[MrBredli]

The BHP's and Taipans being together is asking for touble IMO (the others listed wouldn't be too much of an issue though). I agree that if a lot of thought goes into enclosure design, mixing a number of species (including predator and prey) won't cause too many hassles, but there is always a risk. I know about 10 years ago Taronga Zoo lost a Tiger and a Redbellied Black Snake to Death Adder bites (if i remember the species correctly) in their large outdoor pit, so to presume nothing will happen because it is in a zoo is naive in my opinion. But in saying that, i don't see any major issues, except possibly the BHP's and Taipans.

 

[CGSwans]

Take the Chameleon (which is a Jackson's Chameleon , NOT a Veiled)

Regards,
Trent.

My apologies. As I said, I was listing them off the top of my head. For some reason I had 'veiled' in my head rather than 'Jackson's'.

Also, there are also three eyelash vipers in the one enclosure.

 

[eipper]

Igs and Boa's... how insane..

i would spit my drink on the keepers... and backhand slap them..


the mixes you have mentioned are ridiculous... what ever happened to Zoo's showing natural animals and enclosures, let alone showing mixed nation and predatory animals..

I take it you are refering to the Lampropeltis and the Corallus....as they are the only 2 species in the original list from differing countries (as corrected earlier they are Jacksonii not yemens)

Have you been to Melbourne Zoo, are you aware of their very successful herp breeding programs there?

I know the herp dept @ Melb fairly well and their expertise is as high as it gets....

Do you have any first hand exp with these species or are you making a mis informed guess?

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

The reptile keepers at melbourne zoo know what they are doing. They have been doing it a very long time and very successfully as well.

 

[cris]

Is it that the conventional wisdom is wrong, and mixed-species enclosures are in fact more achievable than usually claimed?
yes

Are our zoological institutions taking drastic risks with their collections, and if so shouldn't we be protesting?
No.
Is it simply that zoos have the time and resources to create large and well supervised enclosures so that animals aren't crowded and potential mismatches can be removed quickly? Probably more that they just know what they are doing and keep risks very low, most reptile enclosures i have seen in zoos could be copied by anyone at home

...

 

[Kirby]

your not debating the safety or well being of the animals, rather defending melbourne zoo and its keepers.

WHY mix venomous and non venomous snakes, from different countries?

WHY mix Boas and Iguanas?

WHY mix vipers and chams?

 

[Noongato]

Vipers and boas are heat sensing arnt they? And considering the chameleon moves like a tree, perhaps the snakes cant even 'see' them...

 

[jordo]

It's the same arguement Kirby, the keepers are responsible for the displays.
It's widely accepted by most keepers that you can have mixed enclosures with larger lizards like blueys, shinglebacks, beardies etc.
People might find it a bit harder to agree with in this example because they're exotic species that few of us have had any experience with and don't actually know the species that well.

 

[eipper]

Kirby,


your not debating the safety or well being of the animals, rather defending melbourne zoo and its keepers.

WHY mix venomous and non venomous snakes, from different countries?

WHY mix Boas and Iguanas?

WHY mix vipers and chams?


As Jordo said its the same argument......also you were the person saying that you will slap them around a bit.....

The reason zoo's often mix species where compatible is too maximise the amount that can be shown....they have about 45 enclosures on display

To show the public the most species they mix some species in some enc's

Boa's and Igs aren't a problem....one is fairly strict vegetarian and the other are warm blooded specialists

Bitis and Chameleo....different micro habitats no probs

Klauberi and scutellatus are both mammal specialists so they will not eat each other....rattlers are gregarious at different times of the year so having some snake company won't upset them.


But then again YOU DID NOT TELL US about your extensive experience with O/S herps which would help your argument..or are you just GUESSING?

Cheers,
Scott

 

[CGSwans]

So does anyone here actually keep mixed vivaria?

 

[jessb]

The ARP does that with their outdoor pit displays - RBBs, Tigers, turtles, skinks etc in mixed enclosures.

 

[gillsy]

The ARP does that with their outdoor pit displays - RBBs, Tigers, turtles, skinks etc in mixed enclosures.

Yes but the outdoor pits have a trick to them... sworn to secrecy sorry.

Also I keep turtles and keelbacks (albeit one of the turtles was a little to small )

I also will be keeping in the one enclosure keelbacks, GTS turtles (pig nose or macleay's), possible a macleay's water snake and even if i can get the damn BTS to eat properly that to.

All will inhabit a different part of the enclosure except the BTS and GTS which have been known to congregate together in the wild.

 

[jessb]

Yes but the outdoor pits have a trick to them... sworn to secrecy sorry.

?????

 

[JasonL]

I keep pink tongues, cunninghams, Beardies (in summer) and a bluey together outdoors and U. milii, P. platurus and Mountain Dragons together inside.