Neurological problems? Help!

[Cheswick3]

Hey all

I've recently acquired an ~18 month old Murray Darling Carpet Python, my first snake. I am concerned she may have neurological damage, or something of the sort. She shakes her head as she moves around, and constantly flips upside down as she moves around. She also seems generally disorientated.

When I bought her from the breeder, I was assured that this activity was just because she was cold because she'd been soaking in her water bowl. I then brought her back to see them a few weeks later, and was told it was likely heat stress (temps were fine), so I turned down the heat anyway, and saw no change.

She hasn't had any issues feeding, and has shed once no problems.

I've attached a video. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
[video=youtube;qUCXoFoW0VM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCXoFoW0VM&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Thank you!

 

[Vixen]

If no obvious over-heating, or poisoning (from sprays, pesticides etc) - I would be very VERY concerned of a virus. Quarantine immediately from any other snakes you have.

Being cold doesn't cause an animal to behave like this, and if the breeder told you otherwise and knew about this beforehand, I'd be doubly concerned.

How long has it been doing this?

 

[Pirateherpss]

I have picked up a bredli trio from someone, and all had the same neuro defects. Chances of a neurological disorder?.. unlikely, as they were not related. So the next bet is some sort of virus/ parasites/ whatever... but they all caught it. I wormed them all, gave special liquid on their food to get rid of parasites/ bugs etc. But eventually i sold them cheap as i did not want them 'contaminating' all my other reptiles.

Its your first snake, so I think you should be right by keeping it and caring for it. Maybe it will get better? or maybe it is a neuro defect, that won't go away, and won't affect his general health.. and he will just be a 'loopy' ol' snake for the rest of its life.

You could take it to the vet??? get it check out???

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I have picked up a bredli trio from someone, and all had the same neuro defects. Chances of a neurological disorder?.. unlikely, as they were not related. So the next bet is some sort of virus/ parasites/ whatever... but they all caught it. I wormed them all, gave special liquid on their food to get rid of parasites/ bugs etc. But eventually i sold them cheap as i did not want them 'contaminating' all my other reptiles.

Its your first snake, so I think you should be right by keeping it and caring for it. Maybe it will get better? or maybe it is a neuro defect, that won't go away, and won't affect his general health.. and he will just be a 'loopy' ol' snake for the rest of its life.

You could take it to the vet??? get it check out???

You should NEVER on-sell a snake with symptoms like that - it simply increases the chance of spreading what may be a catastrophic viral disease into someone else's collection. You clearly have no idea of the potential damage you could have caused by passing these animals on to someone else - your second paragraph demonstrates a dangerous ignorance of these devastating viral diseases.

Now... sometimes, neurological symptoms like this can be caused by a period of extreme heat, in which case it is usually brain damage and rarely improves. Very much more likely is one of the invariably fatal viruses, Sunshine Virus being the most like from its common occurrence in Australia. I believe this can be tested for now, so I suggest you speak to a reptile vet about getting a sample to Tim Hyndman in Perth.

The viruses are HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS, so if you have other snakes, you MUST keep this one well separated from them, with its own water bowl and feeding forceps, and they must NEVER be interchanged. You must always thoroughly wash your hands after handling the animal to prevent transferring infection to your other snakes. Always change water/feed this animal last when doing the rounds.

You should contact the seller who clearly knew of the problem and seek to return the animal and get your money back - it is highly irresponsible to sell an animal in this condition, but I guess if you were to return the animal, he/she would simply pass it on to some other unsuspecting keeper.

Treat this as very serious indeed. There are many in this country who have had entire large collections wiped out by these viral diseases.

Jamie

 

[Pirateherpss]

You should NEVER on-sell a snake with symptoms like that - it simply increases the chance of spreading what may be a catastrophic viral disease into someone else's collection. You clearly have no idea of the potential damage you could have caused by passing these animals on to someone else - your second paragraph demonstrates a dangerous ignorance of these devastating viral diseases.

Now... sometimes, neurological symptoms like this can be caused by a period of extreme heat, in which case it is usually brain damage and rarely improves. Very much more likely is one of the invariably fatal viruses, Sunshine Virus being the most like from its common occurrence in Australia. I believe this can be tested for now, so I suggest you speak to a reptile vet about getting a sample to Tim Hyndman in Perth.

The viruses are HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS, so if you have other snakes, you MUST keep this one well separated from them, with its own water bowl and feeding forceps, and they must NEVER be interchanged. You must always thoroughly wash your hands after handling the animal to prevent transferring infection to your other snakes. Always change water/feed this animal last when doing the rounds.

You should contact the seller who clearly knew of the problem and seek to return the animal and get your money back - it is highly irresponsible to sell an animal in this condition, but I guess if you were to return the animal, he/she would simply pass it on to some other unsuspecting keeper.

Treat this as very serious indeed. There are many in this country who have had entire large collections wiped out by these viral diseases.

Jamie

Mate. The guy I sold them to knew everything I knew on them. He knew exactly what he was buying. He didn't mind because he was buying them cheap. He wanted to take them to the vet himself... I wouldn't sell them without telling anyone they are 'retarded', they would be at my doorstep anyway demanding refund the first time they see them go loopy.

 

[stimigex]

Mate. The guy I sold them to knew everything I knew on them. He knew exactly what he was buying. He didn't mind because he was buying them cheap. He wanted to take them to the vet himself... I wouldn't sell them without telling anyone they are 'retarded', they would be at my doorstep anyway demanding refund the first time they see them go loopy.

You still don't understand what Jamie was getting at! It is simple, you had snakes with a problem and sold them on to another with absolutely no idea of what was wrong with them! Unloading them on someone else and quite possibly passing on a virus such as sunshine virus to another collection as well as the exposure to the others you have in your own collection is wrong in many ways. passing them on cheap is NO excuse!!!

 

[Ekans]

He didn't mind because he was buying them cheap

Not a good sign. You don't sell sick animals. Were the bredli with the defects the ones you sold recently as a breeding trio?

Having a large collection of animals doesn't make you a herpetologist

 

[Herpo]

You still don't understand what Jamie was getting at! It is simple, you had snakes with a problem and sold them on to another with absolutely no idea of what was wrong with them! Unloading them on someone else and quite possibly passing on a virus such as sunshine virus to another collection as well as the exposure to the others you have in your own collection is wrong in many ways. passing them on cheap is NO excuse!!!

He sold them on to someone who knew what they were getting into. If they bought them, then they were aware of the potential danger to their collection and had most likely taken measures to quarantine the snakes. I'd have done the same. Better sell them of to someone who knows sick snakes than to keep them and have no idea what to do...

 

[Peckoltia]

I'll add my two bob.

I think the seller has pulled a shifty on you. Selling a snake that is behaving like that is completely irresponsible, especially to a novice keeper.

I have been keeping snakes for 10 + years now and have only dealt with a 'neurological disorder' once many years ago. My snake (a large wildcaught stimsons python) was behaving similar to yours, looking backwards over itself and not being able to right itself. The snake in question was taken to the vet about 2 months before this with a very minor case of mouth rot. The vet concluded that this infection in the month (even in its early stages) had travelled up the nerve endings in the mouth and into the brain manifesting itself in the neurological disorders that were presented. After some TLC it was decided that the snake would not be able to recover and was euthanized. It is lucky for me that this case wasn't contagious.

My point is that there is any number of things that could be causing the snake to behave like this, other than the already mentioned options.

Scary stuff.

I would NEVER EVER buy (or sell) a snake that was showing symptoms of any form of neurological disorder.

Good luck with your snake.

Alex

 

[Cheswick3]

Thank you all for your help!

I intend to contact the breeder about a refund.

I don't have any other snakes that the potential virus might be passed on to, but I do have three green tree frogs and a bearded dragon. Are they in danger of infection?

Thanks

 

[Pirateherpss]

He sold them on to someone who knew what they were getting into. If they bought them, then they were aware of the potential danger to their collection and had most likely taken measures to quarantine the snakes. I'd have done the same. Better sell them of to someone who knows sick snakes than to keep them and have no idea what to do...

Exactly! THANKYOU!!! I felt I wasn't experienced enough to handle that responsibility at that time, and gave them to someone who wanted to take on the responsibility, and was capable to do so. Jeezz... calm TF down everyone

 

[Herpo]

Exactly! THANKYOU!!! I felt I wasn't experienced enough to handle that responsibility at that time, and gave them to someone who wanted to take on the responsibility, and was capable to do so. Jeezz... calm TF down everyone

Lol, no problem. Anyway, it's pointless for everyone to make a big deal about this now that it's been done.

 

[Freeloader]

If you felt you weren't experienced enough to handle the responsibility of having the bredlis why did you buy them in the first place. You have just handed out the advice to the op that he should have taken his Murray darling to the vet. You didn't take your bredlis to the vet. If you don't do the right thing then who are you to give advice to others.
I don't think you realize the serious problems of on selling sick animals never mind the rules and regulations that govern this practice.
People like you are what gives this hobby a bad name.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'll get back to this this afternoon. The excuses are just blather. What you did was very irresponsible,

Jamie

 

[Freeloader]

It's not pointless to make a big deal of this if it stops the practice of people on selling sick animals. Why didn't he just get them euthanized to stop any viruses getting into other people's collections.

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Mate you didn't give them away you sold the sick animals for money.

 

[pinefamily]

Exactly! THANKYOU!!! I felt I wasn't experienced enough to handle that responsibility at that time, and gave them to someone who wanted to take on the responsibility, and was capable to do so. Jeezz... calm TF down everyone

What Jamie has said is true. While you may have thought you were doing the right thing by finding someone to take on the bredlis, it was irresponsible to do so without knowing exactly what was wrong. A vet check first before on-selling them would have been the right way to go.

 

[Herpo]

It's not pointless to make a big deal of this if it stops the practice of people on selling sick animals. Why didn't he just get them euthanized to stop any viruses getting into other people's collections.

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Mate you didn't give them away you sold the sick animals for money.

Jeez, you guys are hopeless. Sure it might not be right to give away a sick reptile, but better it dies in the hands of someone who knows sick animals than someone who isn't too sure what to do. You're being way too harsh anyway. What would you have done if you were in his shoes and didn't know what to do. I sure as hell wouldn't want to watch the poor thing suffer in it's cage all day and not know what to do. And it is pointless to judge him now. What's done is done, and it can't be undone.

Sorry for rambling, just annoys me when people judge others without even trying to empathize...

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What Jamie has said is true. While you may have thought you were doing the right thing by finding someone to take on the bredlis, it was irresponsible to do so without knowing exactly what was wrong. A vet check first before on-selling them would have been the right way to go.

That is the smartest comment so far.

 

[Ekans]

Jeez, you guys are hopeless. Sure it might not be right to give away a sick reptile, but better it dies in the hands of someone who knows sick animals than someone who isn't too sure what to do. You're being way too harsh anyway. What would you have done if you were in his shoes and didn't know what to do. I sure as hell wouldn't want to watch the poor thing suffer in it's cage all day and not know what to do. And it is pointless to judge him now. What's done is done, and it can't be undone.

Sorry for rambling, just annoys me when people judge others without even trying to empathize...

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That is the smartest comment so far.

YOU are being flippant about a possible major situation. Disease outbreak isn't a matter that should be taken lightly and selling sick animals is irresponsible. You buy an animal, you take care of it, your responsibility. Not taking it to the vet is not exploring all avenues. If you can't afford to, borrow the money/sell stock.

Euthanasia is a far better option that exposing healthy animals to a possibly fatal or debilitating disease.

If I was in his shoes I would of taken them to a vet. Which is a BASIC first step. BASIC care that any animal in your care deserves.

 

[Herpo]

You buy an animal, you take care of it, your responsibility. If you can't afford to, borrow the money/sell stock.

I'M flippant now, am I?
That's so stupid. You'd rather buy an animal, and watch it suffer, dying slowly and painfully, than pass it on to someone who knows what to do in this event? And suggesting to sell stock to pay for a vet bill is stupid AND impractical. Why don't you ask him to sell his house while we're here? See, you're being flippant now. Selling something that was worked for just to prove a point.

 

[pinkmus]

This is why I've decided not to buy any more snakes and stick with what I already have and with what I have in quarantine for two years. I'm really sorry you ended up with a pet snake that clearly has issues.

As Pythoninfinite suggested, get a vet to send a swab off for viral testing, at the same time the vet will be able to check if there are any other issues with your python. As far as I know sunshine virus has not been detected in bearded dragons or frogs but regardless please, please quarantine any new arrivals for as long as you can, preferably more than a year. The test will give you a good idea of whether the condition is due to a virus.

I am personally worried enough that some snakes infected with these viruses can appear perfectly healthy for more than a year. The fact that reptiles that are clearly ill are being sold is even more concerning. At least that particular person knew about it. I hope they also knew the consequences should the signs have been caused by a virus.

OP I hope your snake recovers, or continues to eat and thrive. If it doesn't and deteriorates, I would seek veterinary advice and make the right decision by the snake.