Opmv ponderings !!!!!

[solar 17]

With the recent outbreaks of "suspect" opmv deaths i am beginning to think we maybe causing a problem which bhp's have locked away deep in their dna's, most of it would seem to be blamed to overseas for this problem, but a "major" breeder had a lot of with hindsight suspicous bhp deaths, some 15 years ago, was this one of the first outbreaks i don't believe anybody would know , but i personally do believe our growing culture of keeping snakes in "click -clacks is un-natural, develops problems,agrophobia being one ,when on this site alone, weekly there are "novices asking when they should go up to the next size click-click, well i believe the american idea of keeping reptiles in plastic tubs is convenient and clean , there may well be a two-fold problem developing..... [one] heat zones i personally don"t believe you can achieve a 23-24 cool zone one end and a 33-34heat zone the other end....not physically possible when you consider the quality and lack of practical experience some herpers have and i don't back away from the fact the right information is not always sought in advance and then when it comes to purchasing the right equipment more short cuts are taken.....now secondly and equally important.....people keep their animals in these "sterile " conditions with the reptile not being able to produce any anti-bodies and when the temps go badly wrong i personally believe they then mutate one of these sister opmv "type" viruses whether they actually are opmv or not i suppose at this stage of the panic is not always considered as in "some" recent cases a correct diagnosis of opmv was definately very suspect at best, now back to the click-clack, if this person [in theory] feeds frozen [thawed out] rodents what possible immune defences can this reptile build...[zip imo].......to conclude overall it my opinion only and i wish to high-light that point.....that we are are going to see more of these opmv "type " viruses with the small plastic tubs and frozen food style of herp keeping.......cheers solar 17

 

[mysnakesau]

I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that we cause the likes of OPMV because we keep our animals clean and sterile?

I agree that in some cases where animals are kept too clean that they will have a weaker immune system than the next that has been exposed to dirt. Kids are the same. The ones who say ewww yuck everytime they get dirty hands are the ones who get sick more.

But with OPMV, even if you are right - but how would you ever know - I don't think anybody is going to release their animals into the backyard to to see if it strengthens their immune system. There is no vaccine, and no known way of diagnosing OPMV before the animal dies and without an autopsy report. This disease is too much of a secretive enemy for anybody to consider lightening up on their quarantine or hygiene methods.

 

[jessb]

I'm not sure how it works in snakes, but I believe the theory behind children being overly clean is that they are more likely to develop auto-immune conditions like asthma, eczema and allergies. Their susceptibility to viruses doesn't appear to be affected - in fact the theory is that their immune system works overtime rather than being diminished.

 

[wokka]

There is no doubt that captivity removes the environmental randomness that occurs in the wild. Some variation in feed, temperature, bloodlines, stress, water, infection etc may prove to be beneficial in maintaining tolerance to external forces.

 

[centralian11]

I agree with Solar17 . I have been thinking along the same lines for a while now . We are seeing more and more each year of ompv suspected cases with a lot of reported cases being impossible to trace back to a suspected carrier animal as some keepers have not introduced a new animal into thier colection for 2-3 years .
I am in a position to always feed freshly killed rodents which i do and have never had a problem with my reptiles . In fact i have only ever lost 2 in the past 10 years 1 a diamond that was still in quarentine and the other a bredli that was egg bound .
I am not saying we should neglect the hygene aspect of reptile keeping but pay more care in ensuring the temperate is correct .I keep my hatchies in wooden enclosures that most would consider too large for their size , but i can then have the correct graduation of temperature.
Just my observations .
Barry

 

[Noongato]

I find that my lazy BHP never comes out of his hidey rock for about 8 days after feeding, so in the case of feeding each week, he would never come out because he gets used to the timing of feeds and becomes lazy. So i feed him very irregularly, as he then doesnt know when he will be fed, so he does the instinctive "hunt" around the enclosure every now and then. I wonder if that might make him more tolerant at all?

 

[cris]

It would make sense that keeping them in sterile condidtions makes them more vunerable if exposed to a virus, but i cant imagine the conection going any further.

I have no idea what they are on about with the temperaures, it is easy to get good temps in plastic tubs. Probably easier than heating any other sort of enclosure.

 

[Chyka]

Ive only gotten into the snake side of things around a year ago, and ive been looking into getting a BHP, but it seems that every time you hear a story about OPMV, a bhp was involved. Obviously all breeds are prone to it, but my concern is that if i get it from another state, it has to be freighted through an airport. If a snake with OPMV has gone through this process would it be likely that this disease could be at the airports now? And is there any reduced risk way of getting a snake from another state?
Sorry but ive only recently read up about this and i dont want to risk bringing it into my house, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[-Peter]

Solar17. BHp's in very disparate collections appear to have been hit by something like OPMV. Unless they can be sourced to a condensed origin I think another villian should be being sought.

 

[smeejason]

can i ask what you do to overcome these issues solar. i keep mine in click claks at the moment but as a new comer thought that it was the way to go but am willing to experiment. can you put some of your ideas up
thanks
jason

 

[cris]

Obviously all breeds are prone to it, but my concern is that if i get it from another state, it has to be freighted through an airport. If a snake with OPMV has gone through this process would it be likely that this disease could be at the airports now? And is there any reduced risk way of getting a snake from another state?

The airport is extremely unlikely to harbour a virus IMO, there may be a very small risk of transmission from other snakes being transported. It is likely that it can travel short distances in air, but keep in mind snakes dont breathe or sneeze as much as a humans and they are transported in a bag that is inside more secure packaging.

 

[Earthling]

Is their anycases of OPMV in snakes that have been kept in outdoor eclosures for 3 years or more?

 

[congo_python]

I tend to agree with Solar's point of feeding fresh killed rodents and the sort every couple of feeds,as it would 'most' probably up the immunity levels in ur captive pythons.
I do this with my collection for this exact reason,wether or not it helps that much i don't know but in my opinion it can not hurt.

Just my two cents on this part of the topic.

 

[Freeloader]

It all goes back to the question of how many actual proven cases of opmv we have had in Australia. Once we know this then i believe we can get to the answer.

 

[JasonL]

Thats the problem, actually proving anything, other than rooms / avairys full of snakes all dieing in 3 months which seems to happen quite often, is quite hard and expensive....

 

[Slateman]

I have no idea if click clack containers are reason for opmv outbreak.
I just personally don't like to keep snake in tub longer than 2 months after hatching. I made special battery of smaller enclosure for them with perspex front. That gives me opportunity to watch them and make sure that they have right temperature, depends what part of enclosure they chosen. By keeping the snakes in tubs I feel that there is not as much control to give animal the right condition needed by constant observation of their behaviours.

By saying that, I don't mean to criticize other keepers keeping snakes in tubs longer. Just my personal choice.

 

[Colin]

In my hatchie tubs I always have a lot of air holes in the lid above the end that sits on the heat mat. my reasoning is as hot air rises the warm air goes up through the air holes in the lid keeping the hot end warm but giving a better thermal gradient at the cooler end. If you dont have air holes in the lid above the hot end I think the hot air circulates more and heats up the cooler end much more.

personally I cant see keeping hatchies in clean tubs would cause disease and the hatchies I've bred thrive in these conditions. I would suspect that some disease was already in the collection described and infected their animals from improper quarantine and hygene protocols which back 15 years ago were probably non existant in the majority of collections. The veterinary knowledge and technology back in those days would not have been comparable to todays standards either.

 

[chilli]

With the recent outbreaks of "suspect" opmv deaths

what outbreaks are you talking about? there's far more rumour and hype than fact.

 

[solar 17]

Not rumours

Chilli......... if you look when l posted the thread you may think differently as there was a lot of public exposure and l dont believe the guy that "put down" his entire collection would have thought it was a rumour either or the other people exposed to it....cheers solar 17 [Baden]

 

[euphorion]

Baden, how do you propose hatchies are kept, en masse, considering breeders these days seem to produce dozens (if not more) of bubs every season all of which require individual housing? I know practicality is not entirely a consideration being that we are talking about a virus with the potential to wipe out entire collections, however, i can't see people having the funds let alone the wall space to house all hatchies in substantial enclosures as opposed to click-clacks.

You do raise a good point that keeping them in overly sterile conditions could be doing more harm that good in terms of their immune systems, but a sudden change in temperature experienced by an animal will little or not auto-immune system, would be more likely to cause death due to bacterial infection would it not? It's all assumptions.

Back to the matter of click-clacks. I hardly think feeding thawed rodents/chicks to hatchies kept in otherwise 'sterile' environments is going to pose a risk of immune deficiency. Simply by feeding in the same tub as they are housed, the presence of water more than a few hours old (especially is using rain water as i know some prominent breeders using APS do) and being in the same tub after they have defacated (even if it is removed within hours) will contribute significantly towards a decent immune system in exothermic animals.

The best hatchy racks i have seen are long and thin, usually around 1.5 to 2ft in length and only 3 or 4 inches wide, height dependant upon the species' requirements. Heat cord under one far end with large water bowl/combined hide at the other, ventilation provided along the full length of the tubs to allow heat to escape easily and prevent build up of humidity. The basic slitherin hatchy rack design seems to do this well enough although i havent seen one in person. Either way, i will certainly keep using my click-clacks to keep the risk of bacterial infection down, just my personal choice.

On another note it has been mentioned (cant be bothered to find it for a quote) that some feed fresh killed occassionally to aid the immune system. Seems like a fair point to me but i would be worrying about worming and the like, any other opinions on this?