Pond filter for turtle help (and feeding)

[Vala]

Hi Everyone

I haven't posted on here in a few years, but I need a bit of help with something.
I recent received a turtle from a friend. He had been keeping it in a pond in his backyard and hasn't been taking care of it or feeding it or anything, so it's basically a wild turtle. When he gave it to me it was in a pretty bad condition. He said he noticed it was just sitting there on the ground curled up in his back yard for a few days or so, away from the water, and didn't know what to do with it, so now I am taking care of it.

It's a long neck turtle and his shell is nearly about 20cm in diameter.

When he gave it to me, I picked it up and this warm and smelly water came out of it's shell, about half a cup or so. It also wasn't moving much and seemed very weak and very afraid. I assumed it was about to die, so I put it in a big plastic fish tank with some water from the pond it came from and it survived the night. The next day I went out and brought some turtle salts and instant terrarium water conditioner and filled up his little aquarium and put some bricks in it for him to escape the water if need be (I couldn't find any dead wood to put in instead that didn't have lots of bugs and stuff inside it).
After doing this, when I left the room for 5 minutes I heard him get into the water, and he survived another night, and since he got in the water he's seemed a lot healthier (I'm assuming he had dehydration) and happier. He doesn't withdraw to his shell when I look at him when he's in the water.
I also brought some turtle food that the person at the pet shop recommended (it's like, frozen little pieces of shrimp or worms or something) but so far he doesn't seem interested. I also tried feeding him a worm but it scared him.

Anyway, so I'll get to my real questions. My first one is what should I feed him? How will I get him to eat if he's not used to being fed?

My other one is: I'm building a pond for him outside. I had dug into the ground a 200-300L pond (it's a big square kids sandpit thing). I am wondering about how I would go about filtering it? I was talking to the pet shop guy and he showed me this $600 filtering system.. but that's a bit expensive for me. So I have been looking on ebay and I was wondering if something like these would do

100w Multi-Use Submersible Water Pond Pump Filter 4500L/H | eBay

NEW Protege Aqua Aquarium External Canister Filter UV Light Fish Pond Water Tank | eBay

Or if anybody can find something else that they would recommend, I would greatly appreciate it.

I don't know if it's a girl or a boy, but I've named it Cash (after Johnny Cash )

Thanks for any help

 

[Kitah]

He may need time to settle a bit before he'll be happy to eat. Its quite a big change having no interaction with people, to being put in a glass tank and having movement etc around. Try to keep movement around the tank to a bare minimum, and if necessary cover the sides.

Diet; longnecks stay carnivorous unlike most shortneck sp. which become omnivorous and eat mostly plant matter as adults. Thus try offering live fish (feeder gudgeons or guppies work well- most pet stores sell feeder gudgeons quite cheap- just stick some of these in the tank). They'll also go after freshwater shrimp, small crayfish etc. Longneck turtle species are great hunters.

Filtration- I have an outdoor pond for my boy, and it's actually a gravity filter- when I was researching filtration units the consensus (at least at that time) was that a gravity filter would be better suited for an outdoor turtle setup vs. a canister. You really do need a good filtration unit- if you can outlay whats needed for a decent setup to start with, it will last you years and prove to be much less maintenence for you- after all, what is your time worth? You need a lot of space inside the filtration unit for your biological filtration media- my blagdon 6000 filter is packed with ceramic rings to support friendly bacteria - look up the aquarium nitrogen cycle. Turtles are really quite messy so need enough filtration to keep up.


Just for reference.. this is the filtration system I have- my 'pond' is raised a little so the powerhead pumps the water up about 1m to the blagdon gravity filter.

- pump/powerhead- laguna max-flo power jet 3500- $210
- blagdon minipond 6000 + 9w UV - $259

note- as I said- turtles are extremely messy, so you need a decent filter. That blagdon says 'suitable for up to 6000 litres- but that is probably referring to something like a 6000L pond with neon tetras in it which would produce far, FAR less waste than a turtle in the equivalent size. My pond setup is probably about double the size of yours, for reference.

 

[Xanthine]

Diet: as said, they are primarily carnivorous, and do love insects, so try some woodies and crickets. If the worms from the pet store are blood worms, get rid of them. They have no real nutritional content for turtles, and are too small from him anyway. Also any flies you catch around the house (not with fly spray).

If you want your turtle sexed, take a picture of the underside of it and post it. Males have longer tails, and there are some other characteristics that can sex a turtle from their plastron.

Also, make sure the pond is covered by some shade somewhere to make sure it doesn't overheat. Also make sure the turtle can get out of it.

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Also, frozen brine shrimp are useless for turtles too, and the turtle dinners are usually high in fat, and contain red meat protein which turtles struggle to digest properly.

 

[saintanger]

mine eat: woodies, crickets, fedder fish, chopped up raw prawns, frozen blood worms & frozen turtle dinners. i also get turtle calcium blocks and which you just place in the tank. i find with my eastern long necks that they are not fussy and eat pretty much everything except turtle pellets. offer him a variety and he should start eating soon.

 

[disintegratus]

From what I have heard (from sources other than pet shops) is that most commercially produced foods marketed for turtles are rubbish. I have a shortneck, so slightly different needs, but his diet is woodies, plants, whatever vegies he'll take, crickets when I get them and very very occasionally scraps of raw roo or beef (he'd probably chew through the glass tank to get them, but they're not great for him, so it's only very occasionally).
I can't help you too much with filtration systems for your pond, but I would say get the highest capacity you can, and the best you can afford (though best does not necessarily mean most expensive), because as Kitah said, they are extremely messy critters. I have mine in a 4-foot tank (will be upgrading when I move, but don't have the room just yet and he hasn't quite outgrown it either) and I'm running an eheim 2217 canister. Seems to be doing quite well.

I'd recommend some turtle grit. You can get it from the Australian Freshwater Turtles website, or you can get it at some pet stores, I know Totally Reptiles in Greensborough stocks it.

 

[Kitah]

I forgot to mention too- look up DIY gravity filters- some can be quite easy to make, but for convenience sake I just bought one.

 

[Cypher69]

As the turtle's health is in question, maybe get him/her settled & feeding first before investing in a pond filter.
In the meantime maybe just take out a bucket of water each week & refill with fresh water...

 

[Ratatouile]

The cheapest and most efficient filter would be bog filter that you can make yourself. For the size of your pond, just get a 50 liter tub/plastic pot from Bunnings, make a slit near the top and fill it with scoria rocks. The rocks are great for the bacterias to live. Pump the water from your pond into the filter and let the water go back into the pond as waterfall (via the slit). Or, with a bit more plumbing work you can run a pipe back to the pond. Plant some plants in the filter and on the edge of the pond water and you wouldn't have to clean your filter very often (once a year would be sufficient) and the water is always crystal clear.

It's dark now but I'll take pictures of my bog filter setup tomorrow.

 

[Xanthine]

If his shell is a bit rubbish, you can help it with plenty of sunshine, and, especially if there's signs of fungal infection (fluffy white), adding turtle grit, crushed limestone, or crushed seashell will help by pumping up the general hardness, and pH. Crushed marble will also work, but it tends to take longer to dissolve. All four are just forms of calcium carbonate.

 

[Cypher69]

Forgot to mention too, that "warm smelly water" would've prob been urine. A defensive ploy when picked up & not so much a sign of poor health..

 

[Ratatouile]

Here's the pictures as promised:

First one is the first filter, a 50l black plastic pot I got from Bunnings. The bottom holes are sealed and need to be tested so any leaks can be fixed before scoria rocks are put in (yes, I learned my lesson well!!). The pot is filled with scoria rocks from Bunnings (there are three 20kg bags in there), they need to be washed beforehand otherwise your pond water will turn red. You can't clean it 100% but any red colour residue in your pond will clear up in a couple of days. As you can see, I made a slit near the top of the pot and made a "lip" with Selleys aqua epoxy (the knead it/putty type) so the water falls nicely and doesn't dribble on the side of the pot. You can also make it with a piece of plastic or other material.


Second picture is the whole setup. I have two filters, that first one pour water into the second one, also filled with scoria rocks and both are planted with marginal plants. As said earlier, this bog filter requires very little maintenance, cheap to make and keeps the water clear.


Good luck!

 

[Vala]

thank you for all the replies! So far he is still alive, but is still very shy and not eating. I tried some feeder fish, but they also seem to scare him. I haven't moved him out into the pond yet..

Ratatouile, how do you get the water from the pond to your bucket of rocks? Thank you for the pictures of the set up.

Xanthine, there are no signs of fluffy white stuff on his shell, but are the things you're talking about the same as turtle salts? I also have a bag of calgrit that I was going to add to the water of the pond. However, I still need to get more turtle salt as I don't have enough for the entire pond.
I also don't want to take a picture of the underside of the turtle just right now as it may stress him further.

I was also wondering if 60cm high chicken wire is alright for the fencing of my pond area? It's also buried in the ground a bit and I dug up the ground around the fence and laid chicken wire under the dirt.

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Thanks again for all your replies, I really appreciate the help

 

[Ratatouile]

thank you for all the replies! So far he is still alive, but is still very shy and not eating. I tried some feeder fish, but they also seem to scare him. I haven't moved him out into the pond yet..

Ratatouile, how do you get the water from the pond to your bucket of rocks? Thank you for the pictures of the set up.

If he's scared of the feeder fish, just kill it first before feeding to him. Leave it in the water for a few hours and remove it when uneaten and try again with a different food after a couple of days. Instead of wasting money on buying live feeder fish maybe get freshwater prawns or fillet from the seafood shop/fish market (if you get the sea variation soak them in freshwater in the fridge for a few hours to get rid of the salt). Once he starts eating again you can go back to feeder fish. Another thing you can try is the wombaroo insectivore rearing mix (available from most vets). Mix it with gelatine and warm water to sticky paste, spoon into ice-cube trays, and allow to set in refrigerator. They can then be placed in a bag and frozen for use at a later date. Various insects can be added to these mixtures. Other food items you can offer is moths, flies, woodies, beetles, yabbies, freshwater mussels (de-shelled as turtles feet have been known to get stuck in the clam and they drown) and freshwater snails.

For getting the water from the pond, I just got a cheap pump from that popular auction site (not allowed to mention apparently), will pm you with detail of the product.

Turtles can (and will) climb chicken wire so it's not the best material to use for fencing. Any smooth surface materials are fine (glass, perspex, colourbond). You still need to dig the chicken wire 30cm into the ground to prevent them digging their way out to china

 

[Vala]

If he's scared of the feeder fish, just kill it first before feeding to him. Leave it in the water for a few hours and remove it when uneaten and try again with a different food after a couple of days. Instead of wasting money on buying live feeder fish maybe get freshwater prawns or fillet from the seafood shop/fish market (if you get the sea variation soak them in freshwater in the fridge for a few hours to get rid of the salt). Once he starts eating again you can go back to feeder fish. Another thing you can try is the wombaroo insectivore rearing mix (available from most vets). Mix it with gelatine and warm water to sticky paste, spoon into ice-cube trays, and allow to set in refrigerator. They can then be placed in a bag and frozen for use at a later date. Various insects can be added to these mixtures. Other food items you can offer is moths, flies, woodies, beetles, yabbies, freshwater mussels (de-shelled as turtles feet have been known to get stuck in the clam and they drown) and freshwater snails.

For getting the water from the pond, I just got a cheap pump from that popular auction site (not allowed to mention apparently), will pm you with detail of the product.

Turtles can (and will) climb chicken wire so it's not the best material to use for fencing. Any smooth surface materials are fine (glass, perspex, colourbond). You still need to dig the chicken wire 30cm into the ground to prevent them digging their way out to china

Thank you for all your help
I have dug the chicken wire 30cm below the ground and have put this plastic like..fencer, normally used to contain roots of trees apparently, around the enclosure which has stop his interest completely in trying to climb the fence (and has also stopped my dogs from going crazy :lol.

I will try your suggestion about the food. I noticed that he has eaten the tail off one of the fish, but it doesn't appear to be a wanting to eat it thing, but more of get away from me thing. Hopefully the dead food will work.
This will sound a bit gross, but he made some waste in his smaller enclosure before I move him outside, and there was a whole insect in it (dead and transparent), I think maybe a dragonfly larvae, so I will also try him on some insect and see if he likes that..

I also have another question. I had to take him out of the water yesterday to bring him inside for the night, just in case his enclosure wasn't secure because he had only been out there for a few hours. And when I got him out of the water (he was in his shell), a gasping noise came from him. I'm not sure if it was from him or his shell. I think it sounded more like air escaping rather than an intake of air, but I am not sure. Is this a normal turtle thing? It happened again this morning when I moved him back out there.

I'm sorry about all the questions, I have only own/owned snakes, lizards and invertebrates, so I don't know a lot about turtles or what is normal for them.

 

[Xanthine]

Insects are all wonderful food for turtles. The salts I use are just ones from bunnings, $7 for 25 kg, but turtle salts will work too. The turtle salts also add some hardness to the water, which will prevent all of the turtle grit from dissolving immediately, and so the pH won't raise as much.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Adequate exposure to UVB light is also a very important aspect of turtle husbandry that can affect both health and behaviour. Whether kept indoors or out,turtles need to be able to get themselves above the waterline to bask. For turtles kept indoor s this can be achieved by using a turtle dock and a suitable UVB producing globe about 10 to 15cm above the dock. For those kept in an outdoor pond, access to direct sunlight for several hours a day around midday is required. Angled logs of a diameter greater than the width of the turtle, or similarly sized rocks with a sloping surface, the majority of which is above the waterline, are required.

It is recommended that animals larger than 15cm carapace should be kept in an outdoor pond enclosure. The larger the volume of water the better as this helps to maintain stability of water conditions despite the production of animal wastes. Addition of fast growing and vigorous aquatic plants, such as Vallis (Vallisnera, Ribbon Weed) has a marked positive effect on helping to maintain water quality. These plants are to take up and use ammonia and nitrate wastes as well as a range of other mineral salts in animal waste of lesser impact on water quality.

If you think about it, all the food you add to a turtle’s environment is accumulating there. A small portion is converted into gases by the animal and escapes into the atmosphere. The majority remain in the water. So somehow it needs to be removed on an on-going basis. Biological filtration systems can help to change the nasty chemical wastes to considerably less toxic forms. Some filtration systems are designed to trap active chemicals. However, that still requires that the filter material be replenished on a regular basis. Culling of the biomass of plants and/or percentage water change are the only genuine other way of getting rid of wastes materials from the water.

Blue

 

[dannydee]

I can't offer advice, but it looks like plenty has already been given. I just want to congratulate you on naming your turtle such a brilliant name. I'm a big fan and when I used to have three boy rats as pets a few years back, they were named Cash, Sue and Luther.

Anyway, I hope your new turtle pulls through. It sounds like it's in good hands now.

 

[Vala]

Adequate exposure to UVB light is also a very important aspect of turtle husbandry that can affect both health and behaviour. Whether kept indoors or out,turtles need to be able to get themselves above the waterline to bask. For turtles kept indoor s this can be achieved by using a turtle dock and a suitable UVB producing globe about 10 to 15cm above the dock. For those kept in an outdoor pond, access to direct sunlight for several hours a day around midday is required. Angled logs of a diameter greater than the width of the turtle, or similarly sized rocks with a sloping surface, the majority of which is above the waterline, are required.

It is recommended that animals larger than 15cm carapace should be kept in an outdoor pond enclosure. The larger the volume of water the better as this helps to maintain stability of water conditions despite the production of animal wastes. Addition of fast growing and vigorous aquatic plants, such as Vallis (Vallisnera, Ribbon Weed) has a marked positive effect on helping to maintain water quality. These plants are to take up and use ammonia and nitrate wastes as well as a range of other mineral salts in animal waste of lesser impact on water quality.

If you think about it, all the food you add to a turtle’s environment is accumulating there. A small portion is converted into gases by the animal and escapes into the atmosphere. The majority remain in the water. So somehow it needs to be removed on an on-going basis. Biological filtration systems can help to change the nasty chemical wastes to considerably less toxic forms. Some filtration systems are designed to trap active chemicals. However, that still requires that the filter material be replenished on a regular basis. Culling of the biomass of plants and/or percentage water change are the only genuine other way of getting rid of wastes materials from the water.

Blue

Thank you Blue, I am going to look for where I can buy some ribbon weed tomorrow and put it into his outdoor pond. Thank you for all your advice

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I can't offer advice, but it looks like plenty has already been given. I just want to congratulate you on naming your turtle such a brilliant name. I'm a big fan and when I used to have three boy rats as pets a few years back, they were named Cash, Sue and Luther.

Anyway, I hope your new turtle pulls through. It sounds like it's in good hands now.

Ahh, that's great!! Thanks for your response, made my day