Pygmy freshwater croc

[CrazyNut]

Hi guys,
So I know that currently the pygmy freshwater crocs are restricted to the high escarments within the Northern territory, are half the size of regular freshwater crocs and that research involves mesauring and collecting tissue samples. What other information is there on these spectacular crocodillians? Are they set to reach new species or sub species status (if they haven't already)?

kind regards
CN

 

[user 23122]

Not sure mate but pretty interested in the potential species saw somewhere how they have bounced back from the cane toad invasion and developed a means of eating them upside down

 

[ronhalling]

[MENTION=23122]mrkos[/MENTION], good information but wrong animal, it is the crows that have discovered that they can successfully eat the cane toads upside down thereby negating the poison glands, me thinks a croc of any type might have a bit of a problem dexterity wise eating a cane toad upside down because unfortunately they eat there prey whole the poison glands would still be in the picture, not trying to be a smart **** just giving correct info. ....................Ron

 

[user 23122]

I think I know the difference between a crow and a croc Ron but you are right they are not flipping them upside down but nibbling off their back legs scientists are finding more dead cane toads with their back legs chewed upon in areas where the Pygmy crocs numbers have bounced back. I suggest you google it and you will find a few articles published about scientists latest findings but what would they know hey they are only studying the animal. Cheers

 

[ronhalling]

Lol i find it hard to believe that a croc of any size or type could "Nibble" the legs off anything, they just don't have the dentition for it, freshwater crocs in particular have smallish pointy teeth spaced in such a way that they can be used to trap fish etc and then swallow whole, i spent some time in the Kimberly chucking sooty grunter to these so called nibblers (Freshies) and not once did i observe this so called new eating technique, maybe i should have thrown them a cane toad and then the outcome might have been different. .....................Ron

 

[Shotta]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-17/dwarf-crocodiles-learning-to-fight-back-to-cane-toad/5896738

 

[cement]

So whats the mail now on these crocs? Are they legit a new sub species, of freshy or are they just stunted because of the lack of food in their habitat, which is what I heard a few years ago.??

 

[butters]

I am lucky enough to work somewhere that has both normal and Pygmy freshies and can say there are obvious differences between them when you have them side by side. If they were just stunted you would imagine that once given a steady supply of food and all else is equal they would reach normal sizes. That doesn't seem to be the case. Ours are at least 5 years old and still well under a metre in length.

I don't know their exact length but can measure them on the weekend. Visually the head shape is different and there seem to be differences in scalation. I can see I'm going to have to take a closer look and make note of the differences.
I wouldn't be surprised if down the track they are described as a different species or at the very least a recognized subspecies.

 

[BredliFreak]

As for Pygmy crocs I know a guy who owns one or two and they are pretty darn small and cute. They do appear different when compared to other crocs side-by-side. I would like to see papers on whether they are going to be a species, subspecies of freshies or just a locale.

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[butters]

It surprises me,or maybe it doesn't that we have so few species of crocodilians in Australia given our size and topography. Other regions where they occur often have more.

Saltwater crocs travel huge Distances so it's no surprise they are uniform across their range. Freshies tend to be more sedentary and there are often breaks between suitable habitat so you should expect there to be more variation. Maybe there is and we just haven't noticed or perhaps they travel more than we think.

Crocodilians occur in areas that toads are found naturally and they haven't been wiped out by them so perhaps there is hope for ours.

 

[Allan]

It surprises me,or maybe it doesn't that we have so few species of crocodilians in Australia given our size and topography. Other regions where they occur often have more.



Currently, only 23 recognised species spread around the world.

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Back on track.....and some light entertainment.
http://www.territorystories.nt.gov.au/bitstream/10070/241702/3/ntn26jul12003x.pdf

 

[BredliFreak]

As far as Pygmy crocs are concerned, is there anyone out there trying to prove out different genetics in these guys? Would be popular pets because they don't get too big I guess.

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[pythoninfinite]

The problem with crocs is that lots of us can't keep them, as much as we would like to... I'd love to have a pygmy Freshie or two, but alas I live in NSW. I love Salties too, but they get too big too fast. I did have a couple of Freshies in WA in the 1970s (caught for me and shipped by the wildlife officers in Kununurra for $20!) and they were delightful and very interesting animals. Sadly I eventually gave them to the Perth Zoo, where they died within six months, from neglect or lack of interest I guess...

Jamie

 

[BredliFreak]

Lucky for me at the Canberra Reptile zoo they have a couple of pygmys which are awesome

 

[ronhalling]

following is the link shotta put up for freshies eating cane toads http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-1...e-toad/5896738

the next links is for the crows eating cane toads that i put up http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-09-15/toads-fall-victim-to-crows-in-nt/670524
looks like you have to put my link in a browser

When people read them both they will see that the 1st 1 is a theory and the second 1 is a fact which is why i posted what i did, make of them what you all wish but how about we all start acting like adults

 

[BredliFreak]

I don't see why we shouldnt keep them apart from idiots releasing them. They get to a managable size which is good since most laws where you can keep crocs makes sure you sell them to a croc farm, whereas with pygmys they wouldnt need to. I guess it'll probably be like the deleani case where authorities don't want to have them in captivity full stop.

 

[butters]

They are in captivity. I'm not up on other state legislation but in the states where you can keep crocs I don't see why you couldn't. At present they are still just freshies.

 

[BredliFreak]

Trouble would be finding a legitimate Pygmy for sale

 

[butters]

Zoo surplus would be the only legit source at the moment I would imagine. That's where ours came from. In queensland you can't own a croc on a rec license but you can on a demonstrators. Even then I think you need 2 years documented experience before they will let you have crocs.

 

[GBWhite]

Ron is correct in that Adam Britton's theory is just that and crows eating the bellies out of toads is proven.

Despite what some believe I personally doubt that pygmy crocs (in fact any crocs) have the cognitive ability to consciously choose to just chew the legs off toads. Seems a pretty ridiculous theory to me but then again it would be very interesting if he can prove it.

Some papers have been written alleging that salties have learnt to distinguish between toads and frogs but I don't know how they have proven this given that salties appear immune to toads anyway.

I've been doing a little digging at from what I have read it appears that species of Carabid ground beetles are know to feed on frogs and this has been recorded as occurring in Australia (Robinson 1989) (Littlejohn & Wainer 1978 ) 8). Other information indicates that they feed on toads and that remains of partially eaten frogs are a good sign of their activity in an area. Maybe this might account for the number of dismembered toads discovered at the site.

A more reasonable explanation to their apparent immunity maybe that toads are being consumed as secondary food items, throughout different stages of the crocs growth cycles through predation on diving beetles, water scorpions, dragonflies, crayfish and dock spiders that are all know to prey on Cane Toad tadpoles (and in some cases adult toads).

On another note, I've also heard of instances where RBB's and Keelbacks have been observed scrapping dead toads off road surfaces and eating them with no ill effect.