questions for those who breed mice

[shona]

I'm looking at breeding mice for food, but have a few questions - would appreciate some advice from people who have done this before

Current plan (comments welcome)

Rack: galvanised shelving unit
Boxes: probably plastic crates (Crazy Clark / Reject shop / cheap shop style)
Lids: wire mesh lid (with one corner lower to hold food)
Water: 20L drum at top of shelves, lines will gravity feed to drip nozzle in each box (drip nozzles from Everything Reptile in Brisbane)
Mice per box: 5 females + 1 male (always housed together)
Food: mouse pellet + supplement with fruit/veg
Substrate in boxes: sheets of newspaper (hopefully this will be enough, but if it starts to smell I'll look at adding shavings). also bit of toilet paper for the females to tear up.
Hides: plastic pots or disposable (eg small cardboard boxes) + 1 mouse wheel per box
Clean: replace newspaper and spray down box once a week
Euthanasia method: will be getting a CO2 bottle and bucket

I'm looking at starting with 10 boxes (so 50 females, 10 males total) and have worked out this should give about 500-750 babies every time the females give birth (if everything goes to plan!)

Questions:

* I know the gestation period is 21 days, but do the females get pregnant straight away after giving birth? I'm just trying to work out if litters will be born every 3 weeks, or 4, 5 or 6 weeks.

* Do I need one hide per mouse? Or are they happy to share even when they have babies

* For those who have their setups outside - is temperature an issue? I've read that it is better to keep them at 20-25 consistently, but I dont really want to get into aircon/heating. So if I have them outside will their production just drop in the really cold & warm months? (if so, by how much?) Will I need to do anything to keep them cool in summer?

* What size box would I be looking at to house 5 females/1 male?

* To clean the tubs, do I move the mice from tub #1 into spare tub, clean #1, then move mice from tub #2 into clean #1 and so on? Or is it possible to clean around the mice without moving them?

* Is it possible to have larger containers with say 10 females to 1 male? (why does no-one do this - is it just because it's easier to clean the smaller boxes?)

sorry for all the questions! just want to make sure this is going to work before putting any time/cash into it. thanks

 

[TrueBlue]

rats are far easier to breed and imo are a better food source, plus they dont hardly smell at all compared to mice.

 

[Chrisreptile]

As TB has said, rats are are better food source, breed easily and they also get alot bigger.
Rats dont smell half as bad as mice either.

Questions:

* I know the gestation period is 21 days, but do the females get pregnant straight away after giving birth? I'm just trying to work out if litters will be born every 3 weeks, or 4, 5 or 6 weeks.

The females can get pregnant soon after giving birth, but i find it better to give them a rest.

* Do I need one hide per mouse? Or are they happy to share even when they have babies

They will share, but sometimes its best to seperate the mum and her bubs to avoid stress, then its alot easier to monitor them etc.

* For those who have their setups outside - is temperature an issue? I've read that it is better to keep them at 20-25 consistently, but I dont really want to get into aircon/heating. So if I have them outside will their production just drop in the really cold & warm months? (if so, by how much?) Will I need to do anything to keep them cool in summer?

I keep mine inside (the double brick garage). I find that my rodents breed better when its cold outside. Rats and mice are by far more susceptible to the heat. So they breed less in summer (from my experience only)

* What size box would I be looking at to house 5 females/1 male?

Something approx 40 X 30 X 20 cm (L, W, D) is a good size for a small group.

* To clean the tubs, do I move the mice from tub #1 into spare tub, clean #1, then move mice from tub #2 into clean #1 and so on? Or is it possible to clean around the mice without moving them?

I find it easier to have a few spare tubs. So i setup a spare tub, (shavings and hides etc) then move the mice from the enclosure thats dirty straight into the spare one and chuck the lid on it.. Then i empty the dirty shavings into the bin and give it a wash.

* Is it possible to have larger containers with say 10 females to 1 male? (why does no-one do this - is it just because it's easier to clean the smaller boxes?)

It is easier to monitor them in smaller numbers, many people will have different opinions though.

 

[dodgie]

Substrate = pine wood shavings.
2-3 females to 1 male.If you have to many females you will lose a lot of babys they will get pushed to the bottom of the nest and get squashed.
Temps can be a big problem depending on where you live,20-25c is perfect.To cold and they will freeze to death and in summer they will end up cooked.
Bigger the tub the better you will not have to clean as often.
You don't need to use hides for them i don't.
Cleaning,take them out and put them in holding box or something,clean out the tub and put them back in.
DON"T let them run out of food or water or they will eat each other.

 

[Lewy]

This is our set up the first box is mice the rest are rats

There is 2 female and 1 male in each box a few more in the mouse box

Works well for us

We have a hide box in all as they seem to like having there baby's in the box

Use wood shavings

Lewy

 

[cris]

yeah rats are better all round really. If you want to breed mice for small reptiles you can just use a plastic tub with a mesh lid, i use the big black plastic ones that you can get from bunnings. For anything able to eat pink rats you are far better off breeding rats.

Some male mice will kill their babies or even get killed by the females trying to. Others get along well and can be kept together.

Keeping them outside is fine, just make sure you give them plenty of stuff to make a well insulated home out of. Also make sure they dont get cooked in the sun. Good ventilation is also very important.

As for feeding them what you suggest is good, but i would also give them bones and other similar food scraps.

If you decide to keep rats you are better off keeping large numbers in a single large cage than the same amount in many small cages. Rats generally get along well with each other so can be kept together in large numbers.

 

[cris]

Also on the smell issue, rats do not smell anymore than than a typical animal, far less than many humans for that matter. Male mice however are very stinky little things regardless of if you keep the enclosure clean.

 

[shona]

thanks everyone. I'll be breeding for myself and a couple of friends and we all need weaner mice, so breeding rats instead is not an option unfortunately.

where is the best place to get wood shavings?

also would I be better off trying to get lab mice from Murdoch or just pet shop mice? I'd guess the lab mice would be bred for higher output, but I'm concerned they might not cope well with being out of a lab environment (temp fluctuations etc)

 

[Lewy]

thanks everyone. I'll be breeding for myself and a couple of friends and we all need weaner mice, so breeding rats instead is not an option unfortunately.

where is the best place to get wood shavings?

also would I be better off trying to get lab mice from Murdoch or just pet shop mice? I'd guess the lab mice would be bred for higher output, but I'm concerned they might not cope well with being out of a lab environment (temp fluctuations etc)

Produces

Also if u are feeding weaner mice u can feed pinky rats that's what i would do

 

[dazza74]

like lewy said and if it can feed on weaner mice get it onto rats .its much easier to get them on rats when they are able to eat pinkie rats otherwise you will be feeding 2 or 3 mice per feed instead of 1 good sized rat.also it is so much easier to tell the sex of rats than mice after a couple of weeks

 

[JasonL]

Whilst I agree rats are a better food source, and easier for larger pythons, I can't see how they are easier to breed. Nothing on earth breeds like mice, I'm over run with the buggers... I wish my rats did as well as my mice... I think alot depends on the particular lines you are breeding.

 

[Crazy_Snake08]

i would go breeding rats instead of mice....

 

[lizardvet]

Breeding mice

Mice breed well in trios (one male with two females) or harems (one male with several females). The more mice, the larger the box you will need. A female mouse with litter needs around 160 sq cm floor space, a single mouse needs 100 sq cm floor space- so if you have a male with 5 females (all of which have litters you would need a box that is 900sq cm floor space- eg 30cm by 30cm. The lid should be about 15 cm from the floor- this allow the mice to exercise by climbing the underside of the wire lid.

Mice can cope with temps from around 10 C to 28 C so you should try to make sure they don't get too much hotter or colder than that.

Good quality mouse pellets should be all they need diet wise. Fresh fruit, veges etc tend to make the cage get dirtier/ smellier more quickly. If you want to supplement the diet- use dry grains and seeds- a parrot seed mix or sunflower seeds scattered through the cage bedding gives the mice something to do (foraging for food).

Nesting mice should have somewhere to make their nest (empty toilet rolls work well) and something to make a nest from- the toilet paper works well for that.

Some mice like an exercise wheel- some ignore it. I don't think it is a priority for breeding mice.

Clean mice cages at least weekly. Have twice as many plastic cages bases as lids. Set up a clean cage, transfer the mice from the dirty to clean cage, and put the original lid on the clean cage. The dirty cage can then be emptied and soaked in bleach to clean microbes.

Getting the mice from a research facility should ensure that they are disease free. Ask for Swiss or QS (Quackenbush Swiss) as these strains have the largest litters- 10- 20 pups in a litter.

When euthanasing mouse pups with CO2- they will take quite a long time to expire. You are best to place the mouse pups in a plastic bag, fill the bag with CO2 and leave it for 20 minutes.

Female mice breed well in groups and the male mice can be left with them at all times. The females will generally make a single nest and all pups will be placed in this. Females take it in turns to sit on the nest and feed the mouse pups. When leaving the males with the females they will generally mate as soon as the pups are born- so make sure you wean the pups at 20 days - just before the next litter is born

 

[Lewy]

Whilst I agree rats are a better food source, and easier for larger pythons, I can't see how they are easier to breed. Nothing on earth breeds like mice, I'm over run with the buggers... I wish my rats did as well as my mice... I think alot depends on the particular lines you are breeding.

I would have disagree ATM as my mice have only breed once yet the rats are going nuts and i have lost count how many times they have breed

I no it usually works the outher way round but no so for me yet lol

Go with the rats

Lewy

 

[cris]

Whilst I agree rats are a better food source, and easier for larger pythons, I can't see how they are easier to breed. Nothing on earth breeds like mice, I'm over run with the buggers... I wish my rats did as well as my mice... I think alot depends on the particular lines you are breeding.

Rats are generally far easier to breed and look after, they can normally be kept together all the time, they will only go to the toilet in one area if you have a good setup, also the much lower number you need in comparison to mice means far less work. You are right though some lines are good and bad, if your rats arnt breeding well and they are being well cared for i would get some differant rats.

 

[JasonL]

Rats are generally far easier to breed and look after, they can normally be kept together all the time, they will only go to the toilet in one area if you have a good setup, also the much lower number you need in comparison to mice means far less work. You are right though some lines are good and bad, if your rats arnt breeding well and they are being well cared for i would get some differant rats.

My rats are breeding well, but the mice are explosive!! (and both are kept together all year round) rats 1;3 mice 1;8, I probably have 50 - 100 pinky/ fuzzies in every mouse tub at any one time, clutches of 15-20 at a time. In the general scheme of mammals, mice are known to outbreed anything else, aka the huge mouse plagues that occur in farming regions some times. I keep a total of 12 female rats, 4 males and 21 female mice, 3 males.

 

[shona]

thanks guys really helpful info

 

[lizardvet]

Bedding

Forgot to mention that the best bedding I have found for mice is the recycled paper "cat litter" marketed as breeder's choice in woolworths and another one marketed as "light and easy' in Coles

 

[Tatelina]

Haven't read the thread...but have you thought about other wild mice/rats/bugs/insects eating the food? Possibly infecting your animals?

 

[Choco]

I've only quickly skimmed the thread and I think most of your questions are answered but anyway just in case...

As cris said males can kill their own babies or the mum may kill the dad if she feels they're threatened. I always separate the dads when I notice one is pregnant. Once I missed one and she all but tore half the dads face off. He wasn't pretty.

Once the babies are at about 3-4 weeks (I think) separate the male and female babies or they'll all mate with each other.

I keep mine outside with no problems and through winter it gets down to 10ish degrees. As long as you have a hide for them they'll all sleep in they're and they're body warmth warms the whole hide.

Depending on how you house the set up but consider;
can wild mice get to the set up? They can transfer disease by urinating/pooing into your cages(so I've heard) They'll also eat your food.
Also wild animals birds trying to get an easy feed.