Rough Scaled Pythons

[beastcreature]

Does anybody here have information they can offer me about 'separate lines' of Rough scaled python? Was the founding captive stock segregated into pairs or were they interchangeable? How many of them produced offspring?

 

[arevenant]

Would be almost impossible to find that info through here, thats something only private breeders some 20+ years ago would probably have knowledge of...

 

[beastcreature]

Would be almost impossible to find that info through here, thats something only private breeders some 20+ years ago would probably have knowledge of...

I've been contacted through Aussiepythons more than once by non members or inactive members with information I was looking for, another tool at my disposal, may as well utilize it.

 

[arevenant]

Agree, I more meant in the sense that Roughies didn't come from a single source breeder back down the line. There would have been multiple people privately breeding them independent and unknown to each other.

 

[swampie]

arevenant, rough scales haven't been in the hobby for that long, only a decade or so, there were only 5 founding animals to start the breeding program, they were collected from the wild on permit. They were all kept and bred by the one keeper.

 

[beastcreature]

That part I knew, thanks for commenting, Swampie. I've been contacted privately with the right stuff but if anybody has more information, feel free to PM me.

 

[arevenant]

arevenant, rough scales haven't been in the hobby for that long, only a decade or so, there were only 5 founding animals to start the breeding program, they were collected from the wild on permit. They were all kept and bred by the one keeper.

While I agree that this is correct information, I highly doubt there was one single person responsible for ALL roughies currently owned is all I was getting at...
Surely at some point in previous time, there have been others collected from the wild and bred privately without widely known knowledge of it...

 

[beastcreature]

While I agree that this is correct information, I highly doubt there was one single person responsible for ALL roughies currently owned is all I was getting at...
Surely at some point in previous time, there have been others collected from the wild and bred privately without widely known knowledge of it...

If I'm correct, documentation of them stretches as far back as the 70's & for a while they had a dead specimen misidentified as a stimsons.

You're assuming there is earlier lineage of captive bred Rough scaled python, how does this change my pursuit? We can't record what we don't know.

 

[swampie]

I doubt due to the isolation, accessibility and ruggedness of their habitat that they were kept or bred before J.Weigal got hold of them...it took John many trips with small teams to collect the 5 founding specimens, they were well organized and flown in by chopper, no roads in from what I understand.....it would have cost a packet to organize each expedition too...

 

[beastcreature]

So, my 'sources indicate' there were 5 animals originally but only 2 males & 2 females reproduced, interchangeably, 4 founding animals in total.

 

[GBWhite]

So, my 'sources indicate' there were 5 animals originally but only 2 males & 2 females reproduced, interchangeably, 4 founding animals in total.

I think you'll find your source is spot on.

The info that Swampy provided is correct as well. Interestingly the first live one discovered was found by one of John's companions, Trent Russell during a trip where they got lost, run out of water and Trent nearly got eaten by a croc.

John and Trent gave a great talk about their adventure at the AHS shortly after they returned with the first snake.

From memory when they first hit the market they were selling for around $17K each.

George.

 

[Bushfire]

There will be other possible bloodlines soon enough, a couple more hurdles and WA will have different lines going.

 

[beastcreature]

There will be other possible bloodlines soon enough, a couple more hurdles and WA will have different lines going.

That was my next inquiry, if there is anymore about that you could share with me, now or in future, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bushfire]

As far as Im aware, no WA takers have collected any yet. Its only been very recent that a few hurdles to do that legally have been cleared. If they do decide to collect they would face the same challenges as John did in relation to very high cost getting there and with a real possibility of leaving empty handed and broke. From the outside it looks like there is more of a push to allow displayers that have John's line to be legally able to sell to the hobby. I don't think that law hurdle has been cleared and it wouldn't surprise me that the authorities will resist that. Also it doesn't seem like many of the displayers with them have breeding prs either and may come down to even if the authorities allow it would Perth Zoo allow any young bred to go into private hands?
So it still seems like although possible that separate bloodlines may become established, it seems unlikely in the short to mid term. If a separate bloodline was introduced, something you would need to consider if living in the east would you pay $10,000 for a roughie that looks like the ones over here just a different bloodline (even this is only a possibility, as even the WA collectors will be seeking to collect in areas that John did and give what little we know of its ecology there is a very real possibility that they already naturally have limited gene pools).

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I think it's a mistake to anticipate different "bloodlines" of Roughies coming in to the trade - they occur in a relatively small range in coastal vine thickets in the Kimberley, and on a couple of islands, and are difficult and very expensive to find, so any new animals coming into the trade will likely simply be duplicates of what we in the east have already. WA collectors would have to have a strong personal interest in the species to invest thousands in an expedition, or multiple expeditions, to get them into the trade in WA, and that represents a significant financial risk.

I think I remember JW telling me that each of his five animals was bred during his initial work with the species, so the original five were quite productive. They haven't been around for enough generations to be considered being "line-bred" in any way, whatever "line-bred" means anyway.

Jamie

 

[Snowman]

There is also an export ban on any RSP collected for the pet trade in WA at the moments. Same with a few others such as perthensis. They cant leave the state.
Reg 16 holders have been given permission to breed them for the pet trade. However it seems none of the display animals here make a pair. All the same sex. Perth Zoo is our best chance really. But speaking to a keeper there he was told they would never breed them or sell them to the pet trade. So again the best possible out come is that the zoo supplies one of the display holders with the sex that they need to get breeding off the ground.

 

[beastcreature]

I think I remember JW telling me that each of his five animals was bred during his initial work with the species, so the original five were quite productive. They haven't been around for enough generations to be considered being "line-bred" in any way, whatever "line-bred" means anyway.

Jamie

There was DNA testing that suggested Roughies were most closely related to GTP's, what about how genetically distinct they were from each other?

Linebreeding is inbreeding, which was the only means of producing the number of Roughies that are in circulation today, so they have already been & will continue to be linebred unless there is somebody out there with both the original bloodlines, that's not taking into consideration how diverse the foundation animals were either.