Snake catching experiences

[BredliFreak]

Hi everyone,

As my herp addiction continues, I have realised I want to learn how to deal with venomous snakes, so I was wondering:
-What was the first snake you caught, and how/why?
-What tips / experience do you have to share with beginners who want to deal with vens?

My personal experience isn't much, I come across rbbs and small eyed snakes regularly and I have used sticks to move RBBs, small eyeds and a brown once (though now I think it was a delma).

Keep in mind I won't go out and catch a brown straight away and kill myself etc etc, I'm not that reckless!

Bredli

 

[ronhalling]

[MENTION=41799]BredliFreak[/MENTION], IMO you should contact 1 of the more experienced snake relocaters on this forum ASAP and ask them about venomous snake handling courses in your area before you get hit by 1 of them Delma's and we end up with 1 less member on our forum. ......................Ron

 

[BredliFreak]

Hi ron,

Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately I am a bit too... young to attend courses at this stage, I was just asking about experience (regardless of tips or not) and what others have to share, whether it be yarns or advice. Maybe if I'm lucky someone might know someone who could act as a mentor.

A bit of background info,

I want to be able to relocate snakes (as a part time snake catcher) when I am older, and also I would like experience so I could work with the vens at my local reptile centre. I will probably start with wild pythons and small elapids (e.g dwyers YFWS white-lippeds etc.) then work my way up.

Thanks Ron, anyone else have any advice *cough veterans cough*

 

[cement]

Hi everyone,

As my herp addiction continues, I have realised I want to learn how to deal with venomous snakes, so I was wondering:
-What was the first snake you caught, and how/why?
-What tips / experience do you have to share with beginners who want to deal with vens?

My personal experience isn't much, I come across rbbs and small eyed snakes regularly and I have used sticks to move RBBs, small eyeds and a brown once (though now I think it was a delma).

Keep in mind I won't go out and catch a brown straight away and kill myself etc etc, I'm not that reckless!

Bredli

"I want to be able to relocate snakes (as a part time snake catcher) when I am older, and also I would like experience so I could work with the vens at my local reptile centre. I will probably start with wild pythons and small elapids (e.g dwyers YFWS white-lippeds etc.) then work my way up."


What do you mean "deal" with? Do mean find them and play with them in the bush? Is this what you mean by "starting with wild pythons"?
My tip as a relocator is this.... if its what you want to do, then align yourself with the local reptile centre and learn from them, get expert in snake bite first aid, and most importantly.... try to underdstand how snakes fit into the environment, how each different species has evolved to fill a particular niche and particular food source or sources.
Remember too, that no matter how much you know or think you know, there is no room for being complacent or blase when your within the strike range. The speed at which these guys can go is probably always a surprise to the bitten, no matter how 'veteran' you may be!

 

[GBWhite]

Hi Bredli,

Most of my generation gained our experience going out in the field with friends and gradually getting experience through collecting the less dangerous vens such s YFWS, Swam Snakes and Mustard Bellied Snakes that we found around the Sydney area. This provided the opportunity to get to know techniques and gain confidence before we tackled the more dangerous ones.

My advice in regard to obtaining experience is to try and align yourself with a mentor who is willing to take you out in the field and get experience with handling the less dangerous vens before you even contemplate taking on anything more dangerous. You might be able to achieve this by joining a local herp group in your area or if one isn't available join the AHS or HHS and attend field trips. This way you'll meet experienced people who may be willing to mentor you.

Alternatively try and see if you can volunteer to undertake work at a venue that displays vens. Personally due to WH&S regulations these days I doubt if they will allow you the opportunity to engage with such animals however you might be provided the experience to watch and learn. I don't know how old you are but again due WH&S regulation age may be a contributing factor in not being provided the opportunity to become a volunteer.

Other than that my friend it may just be a case of being patient until your old enough to spread you wings.

All the best with your endeavour.

George.

 

[BredliFreak]

Thankyou for your advice both of you,

Yeah George I am planning to volunteer when I am old enough (a "tad" young) though like you I doubt I will be dealing with vens for quite some time. I will follow what you said about having a mentor, I'll try and attend ACTHA's christmas party and see if I have any luck.

Thanks,
Bredli

 

[imported-varanus]

You'll also need to move interstate, assuming you are in the ACT. No relocations are permitted, unless with NPWS or similar. You could try some volunteer work with Canberra Reptile Centre?

 

[Bluetongue1]

Joining ACTHA and getting to know experienced keepers is a good move. Hopefully that will not only result in appropriately supervised field trips, but also getting to observe and learn about snakes and handling of them via the collections of other members. You can and will learn a lot about snake behaviour through careful and considered observation and asking lots of questions.

Please don’t be in such a hurry to handle vens. The fact that you have already “used sticks to move RBBs, small eyeds and a brown once” is a worry. While RBB and Small-eyed are generally passive snakes, they are far from harmless. As for Browns, even a juvenile can deliver a potentially fatal bite. Take your time and learn how to properly handle harmless captive snakes first, including how to use a snake hook and not sticks.

Having personally witnessed the results of a couple of serious envenomations in youths, I can assure you it was not pretty. Luckily both survived, following a period of hospitalisation. One is now a very well known ‘veteran’ snake showman and educator. He would be the first to admit his foolishness and the fact that he was lucky. Clearly those that did not survive are not in the ‘veterans’category to tell their tales of warning.

It seems there a need to improve your field ID skills. At the very least, buy yourself a quality field guide that covers all the reptiles in your region and read it! Then continually refer to it. Make up a local species list and start learning as much as you can about each one on that list - their preferred habitats, their behaviour, diagnostic features that allow you to identify and distinguish between them, etc. Your local library can be a treasure trove, with books like Rick Shine’s “Australian Snakes A Natural History” - well worth reading cover to cover if you are as keen as you indicate.

You mentioned Dwyer’s Snake (Parasuta dwyeri). Are you able to positively distinguish between this species and the closely related, very similar Parasuta flagellum? Also, are you aware of the significant difference in toxicity of their venoms?

On any bush walk people should dress protectively, never go alone, take pressure bandages and know how to apply pressure-immobilisation first aid effectively. Enjoy your herping but please don't don't put yourself in harm's way!

 

[cement]

Not only do you need to be able to recognise and handle snakes in all manner of situations, beleive me its a lot different in the field then in a controlled pit environment where handling courses take place, but you also need to be able to confidently communicate with the public.

Relocating finds you in some very tricky situations at times, not only with the snakes, but with the public.......
yesterday for eg, I get a call from a guy who has a snake pinned with a shovel. He (wonders of technology) googles on his phone, gets me and I'm talking to him within minutes.
He's in a panic, as usual.
By the time I get there the 1.2m green tree snake has a broken back and paralysed from midbody down. He has already googled green tree snake from my ID over the phone and is now feeling bad that he fatally injured a harmless species.

You WILL be in constant contact with people who do not think highly of snakes.
So, you need to be able to talk to people who are in a state of high emotion, they sometimes say stuff that your just gonna have to pretend you didn't hear, tell the truth, dispell the wives tales and rumours, stay calm.

The pet hobby tends to propagate a romantic idea of snakes, I've heard over and over how people who keep a couple of pythons and read about the rest, go off at joe public for not being so emotionally attached to the world of snakes.

This probably sounds a bit cryptic but I hope you get the meaning here.

You will also be the centre of attention, and have to be calm, level headed and confident in your ability to make it look easy. I did another one in a cul de sac when by the time I got there, there was a full on crowd plus two cop cars full of cops. Hope you don't get stage fright, it could mean a bite.

 

[GBWhite]

Yeah Graham your not wrong about the common reaction of you get from Joe Public and often being the centre of attention at times when you arrive for a removal...hahaha. Can't begin to count the number of times it's happened over the years.

Had one occasion where I arrived at the rear of a sports store to find the staff and some from the neighbouring store all sitting on a back step of the shop with beers and pies waiting to watch the show. They were amazed and disappointed that it was all over a very short time after I arrived that they asked if I could put it back and catch it again because it happened that quick and looked so easy that they missed the whole event.

The cops where I used to live in Inverell had me on speed dial for calls and I'd find it quite funny when I arrived at a scene to see them standing back, often with their hands on their pieces and watch with amazement as I bagged a nice brown or red-belly. They'd often comment on how easy I made it look but happily decline any offer for them to have a go...hahaha.

All the best,

George.

 

[cement]

I know what you mean mate, the cops are great, its like they all sitting around with nothing to do so they all turn up to check it out!! If my phone rings after midnight I know its them!

I rarely drink but on one night I had a thing on and ended up well...smashed, phone rang at around 1.30 am, yep police, with a guy who has a snake in his bedroom, i remember dropping the phone after stumbling around in the dark, trying to find a pen and paper took what I thought was his number and address, hung up and fell back asleep. 10 mins later the home owner rings me and I worked out it was bandybandy, so I asked him to bend a coat hanger and put it in a bucket and let it go. He said ok. that was that.
he rang me again at 7.00am saying "mate, I just can't do it, I need help its freaking me out". So I got my better half to drive me down there, apologised for not really being much help cause of the state i was in and sorted it. had to laugh though when i found the paper I thought I wrote his address on, it was indecipherable!

Had another one where a policewoman rang me because they had confiscated a young python at a drug raid or something, she said she had been looking after it for a week and both she and her daughter had fallen in love with it and wanted to keep it!! I put it to the NPWS and I have literally never seen a licence been granted so quickly..... I offerred to help her bychecking the enclosure etc but never heard back.

 

[Dopamel]

the first wild snake i caught was a brown snake....completely by accident, it was a silver baby, looked nothing like a brown snake! Back in Indiana we have 190ish species and only 2 are venemous so when i see wild snakes I still think they'll be non vens like ribbon garters....thankfully it spurred me on to go out and catch more Brown snakes and skinks.

 

[BredliFreak]

Thank you for your replies,

@importedvaranus I never knew that, thanks for telling me that.

Blue, I have a field guide (the latest wilson and swan) to help me with my ID's (though as you said I need to improve a bit first) but I'll have a look at that book, seems very interesting. I am well aware of the venom toxicity between the Little whip and the dwyers and I know that the Little whip also posses a pale band across the snout which breaks the black head blotch, but again I will need to improve (as you said).

George and Graham, thanks for the advice, I love it when I hear stories like that (half the reason I started this thread). I think public speaking experience will certainly help in the calm area!

Thanks,
Bredli

 

[eipper]

][/FONT]

You mentioned Dwyer’s Snake (Parasuta dwyeri). Are you able to positively distinguish between this species and the closely related, very similar Parasuta flagellum? Also, are you aware of the significant difference in toxicity of their venoms?

!

do you have any evidence of this? I doubt there is anything other than a marginal difference in yield and toxicity

 

[GBWhite]

I doubt there is anything other than a marginal difference in yield and toxicity

I agree Scott.

I recall the death of some bloke that happened a while back that was a result of a P flagellum bite. It had nothing to do with a difference in the toxicity between the two species, it was actually reported to be an allergic reaction .

Knowing the nature of these guys he must have been holding and mucking around with it to get tagged. I've never been nailed by one but from what friends that have tell me, a bite usually results in a bit of pain and local swelling.

Bredli,

While I'm here.

FYI the distinguishing characteristic between P flagellum and the rest of the genus (including dwyeri) is the mid body scale count; ie: P flagellum = 17(+)mbs, all the rest = 15mbs.

Also, Rick's book is a pretty good read, likewise Steve and Gerry's, Complete Guide to Reptiles of Australia as well as their field guides but if your as keen as it seems and you don't own one already, I recommend you get yourself a copy of Hal Cogger's Reptiles and Amphibians of Australia, seventh addition.

George.

 

[eipper]

Hi George,

I knew the guy who was killed in 07- it was anaphylaxis brought on by a minor envenomation.

Cheers
scott

 

[Bluetongue1]

...I am well aware of the venom toxicity between the Little whip and the dwyers and I know that the Little whip also posses a pale band across the snout which breaks the black head blotch, but again I will need to improve (as you said)...

Thanks for responding to my question. Unfortunately, in my attempts to illustrate the point that here is often more to learn about your local species than initially meets the eye, I unintentionally set you up to fail. I do apologise for that. While the difference in the dark head blotches is a good indicator, you can occasional variations that don’t follow the rule. Firm confirmation of species identity (as has already been stated) requires a mid-body scale count.

The question relating to toxicity was simply to determine if you were aware that there was a fatality as a result of a bite form P. flagellum. - experienced herper 37 year old Ron Siggins at Harcourt North in Victoria, 15 April 2007. Due to my typing skills I omitted the qualifying term “possible” in front of the difference in venom toxicity. I also used the “toxicity” in general sense of something that can harm, rather than the technical sense of an actual measure such as an LD50. In retrospect I realize I should have used a simple phrase, such as “effects of the venom”, to avoid confusion.

While there is limited information available on the net about the incident, it does warrant being looked at. It appears he had taken a number of bites in the past. If he was previously envenomated, this would rule out any inherit allergic reaction to a component of the venom. However, it is possible that he may have developed a sensitivity to it as a result of previous exposure. Development of sensitivity as a result of envenomation usually involves reopeated exposure with an increase in the reaction each. However, as best I can ascertain, there is no guarantee that this is necessarily the case. It was also suggested that he may have experienced complications as a result of medication he was taking for neck and spinal injuries. Irrespective of the actual cause of death, doing this sort of research can make your more aware of what can happen and may hopefully encourage you to ensure you are less likely to allow yourself to be bitten by even ‘harmless’ snakes.

 

[GBWhite]

Bredli,

As as far as I'm concerned you didn't fail anything because it wasn't a test. Like any profession there is a vast difference between only being educated through reading and having no first hand experience.

As far as getting bitten goes the old saying "if you play with fire then expect to get burnt" applies to handling any type of reptile on a regular basis just as it does to many, many, vocations, hobbies or pastimes that you or anyone else may pursue in your lifetime.

You don't strike me as a silly person and my advise is that if your intention is to pursue a career that involves handling venomous reptiles, then just realise that inherent dangers abound when dealing with these sort of animals. Caution, safety & awareness are the key issues.

Don't be discouraged by anyones comments. Confidence in handling them safely will only come through time and first hand experience.

All the best,

George.

Following a request from admin I have edited this post as a result of a complaint lodged by Bluetongue. I do this reluctantly and only as a courtesy to the moderators and as a means as to not have the thread closed. Editing should not be considered as an apology for the previous comments relating to the complainant.

 

[cement]

The worst part of snake catching.




Another tip, do not form attachments to things like "my favourite hook"
or "my lucky pinner". A good venomous reptile handler will learn the animal instead, for example... browns strike/react differently to blacks, which react differently to tigers etc. Every species has a different MO, you can only learn that through experience with them.
In other words a good catcher won't worry that he doesn't have his favourite hook because he knows the snake, a lot of the work can be done without hooks or pinners, they are tools that help position an animal for picking up but if your on your own and don't have anyone to hold the hoop bag then your going to have to be good at tailing because you cant use a hook and a bag at the same time.
Tailing and holding the front section with a hook is great for showing the snake off and getting your photo taken..... but you gotta drop the hook to pick up the bag, so learn the snake.

 

[butters]

? I agree that tailing safely is a skill well learnt but I use a hook and bag routinely at the same time by myself. I guess it depends on the style of bag you use. I don't use one of the old style round hoop bags but one with a " landing net" style frame. Coastal and inland Tai's are my least favorite because those suckers are smart. Eastern browns almost catch themselves.
Definitely you need to know the species you are dealing with. They all have their own little quirks and unless you know these you can get in trouble.
I really only tail when dealing with captive snakes during cleaning but have had to with some complicated catches.
That's a different version of a " pinner" than I'm used to seeing Cement.