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beatlloydy

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Hi all,

Over the weekend a group of 8 including myself attended a Venomous Snakehandling course run by Sean from Snakehandler.Participants ranged from complete novices like myself to post a grad research student as well as those from pest control and mining industries.

The course was well run and divided over 2 days. The first day covering all the theory including the OH&S side, Safety and equipment to site assessment etc. This was necessary to help us on the 2nd day when we would be handling live snakes.

On the 2nd day there was a short theory exam, followed by some ID of different sloughed skins using a Dichotomous reference code field guide (very interesting)...Then it was into the reptiles, the part that everyone had come for.

Sean (owner of Snakehandler) worked on an escalating level of (potential threat of) species to make us feel comfortable with the reptiles. This was done all 1 on 1 with Sean and his assistant (Em?) assessing and critiquing us, offering advice as well as encouragement.

I was probably the most nervous of the lot and to be honest this showed a little in my technique...need to not think so much but get into the zen of things.

Anyway, we first started with a Gippsland Water dragon, followed by a Mertons. Any bite by any of the reps was considered a fail so we were all quite nervous at first.

Onto the snakes as Sean started with A Darwin, followed by a coastal/jungle cross someone had surrendered to him as they could not look after it...apparently this can be a little nasty at times so was a good one to use for demonstration.

The progressive scale of snakes designed to get us used to handling some of the more venomous elapids went as follows

Water Python, Brown Tree Snake, Death Adder, Lowlands Copperhead, Blue Belly Black Snake, Red Belly Black Snake, Female Tiger Snake (small but fiesty), Male Tiger Snake (a little larger), Collets (my personal favourite), King Brown and finally a Mulga (a beautiful specimen...actually all Seans snakes are beautiful but I like the Collets and Mulga the best).

Sean also demonstrated on a fiesty Eastern Brown but deemed this one a little too aggressive for us newbies.

Techniques taught were pinning (on rubber only due to possible risk..not recommended by Sean to be done on live reps unless necessary due to stress on snake and also personal risk), Tonging, hooking and tailing. It was up to us to work out the correct method we were comfortable with given the size, disposition and situation of the snake we were dealing with. Generally for the smaller ones hooking was used and tailing for the larger snakes.

I thought the day was the most informative course of any description I had ever been on. I don't know whether or not I will use this information on a commercial basis but purely for working with such a variety of snakes in a safe environment it was well worth it. Sean's course is apparently the only Nationally accedited training course in Australia and the amount of detail he goes into shows why it is used by many companies in pest and mining industries etc to train their employees.

If you are over 18 and want to increase your reptile skills I would highly recommend it. This course gives the successful candidate the ability to apply for a snake removal licence. As I previously stated, even if I dont use the qualifications on a commercial basis, I have improved my overall confidence with snakes/reptiles in general. After handling the elapids etc my pythons will seem like pussycats.

This course (or other recognised courses) are really the only LEGAL way one can improve their knowledge of the handling of reptiles. For this reason alone I thought it was great value for money.

The only disappointing part of the entire day were the poor photos I took. The camera had been used underwater last time and small spots on the lens made focussing etc poor. However, as they say, if there aint no photos it didnt happen, so here are a few.
 

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Hi All
That was a great post Beatlloydy.
I was at the course also and found this the most useful course I have attended.
Thank you Sean from Snakehandler for an outstanding course.
For those that didn't attend If you want to learn about Elapid handling this is the course for you.
 
Understand your nerves BEATLLOYDY ..I started with non vens ..then led up to hot ones ..all was really good ,did the rbbs little bit nervy but no sweaty palms ,tailed and bagged no problem ,really proud of myself how I was doing ..theN he pulled out the big guns ...and I S#$$%%$$#T ha ha ha ..thought to myself 'WOMAN YOU ARE ONE CRAZY HEADCASE!! " and started to get sweaty palms ,heart beat increased to overload ,if I coudlve have got away with wetting my pants I wouldve ...this eastern brown was going mental and I had to catch this?.....after being shown the true reactions of a cornered brown ..and then how it can calm down and be bagged no differently to a rbbs ..I felt a bit better (only a tiny weeny bit ,the urge to wet myself had stopped)
anyway it was my turn to catch this fella ..I tried the first time ,and the trainer had to step in as my nerves got away on me and I wasnt sure if I could actually do this ...he said take a deep breath ,get your wits back about yourself and try when ready ..and so I did ..and that brownie gave me a bit of a run for my money ,but in the end I bagged him ..and have never looked back from there ...
How ever you are trained ,reality though ,the situation that the trainer trys to set up ,even though he /she are doing their best for that senario ..doesnt come close to real life situations you find yourself in though when catching snakes ...
Alot of us drive cars and can do it well on a day to day basis ...but only a few are actual race car drivers ...
 
Nice, healthy looking Tiger Snake.
 
RBB, as all people who do our courses are told, we are giving them the tools and skills to be able to commence working with venomous snakes, no training you do will ever relate to handling snakes in the wild unless you get on the job training such as what we can offer to our staff. Each situation will be different and our concept is to ensure that the skills are learnt in a safe and responsible manner. I am NOT inferring anything about any other course, as I have never seen one and cannot therefore make an informed statement. Soon we will be offering places for traineeships, where the student will get ongoing training and on the job training as part of an extended course to increase their level of skill.....only a small number of people will get into this program each year.

Thanks Kris, thats mad mel, she always gives us a great show.
 
Sean ,I am aware of the training senario and what your limitations are as the trainer ..been there done that ..
Believe it or not there are still people out there ..that crap themselves ,even though they were taught and passed in a training situation ...reality doesnt fit the text book teaching and they bail out mid flight ..leaving an unhappy customer and a snake still on the loose ..thats my point about driving a race car ...

Wasnt a shot at your teaching or anything of that nature towards you or your business ...;)
 
And I have seen people graduate university and fail miserably in their jobs...does it reflect the course...or the person that failed!?!?!?!?!?!
 
And I have seen people graduate university and fail miserably in their jobs...does it reflect the course...or the person that failed!?!?!?!?!?!
wow you are acting paranoid in a bad way ..I am not saying anything about your business training or what not so stop trying to twist and make it out I am please
 
I will be attending one of these soon here
in Melbourne my work is sending me as
over summer we get a fair few browns every
year I'm very happy bout it
 
Hi all,

Techniques taught were pinning (on rubber only due to possible risk..not recommended by Sean to be done on live reps unless necessary due to stress on snake and also personal risk), Tonging, hooking and tailing. It was up to us to work out the correct method we were comfortable with given the size, disposition and situation of the snake we were dealing with. Generally for the smaller ones hooking was used and tailing for the larger snakes.
.

I am a little concerned that pinning might be considered such a high risk to the snake that a rubber snake is used and yet tongs are OK on a live snake.
 
I am a little concerned that pinning might be considered such a high risk to the snake that a rubber snake is used and yet tongs are OK on a live snake.

I think to qualify it here a little...in a scenario where only 1 snake has to be caught...I guess we are trained to use the best method to ensure the safety of ourselves and the snake.

In a training situation there were 8 of us plus the instructor...so pinning/tonging 8+ times...(sometimes we had to do it twice)...would definitely not be good on the snake..for this reason, we only tailed or hooked live snakes...In my original post I may have alluded to Tonging...however, tonging and pinning were only practiced on rubber snakes (for the simple reason of stress)...however, if I came across a brown snake in a removal situation and the situation was there I think I would tong it no questions asked. My safety is more important than the snakes...if you use the tongs Sean recommends then damage is not an issue...they have rubberised tips.
 
Can I ask you beatlloydy , without seeming to come across abruptly ...
Whats a situation in catching a wild eastern brown ,that you would resort to using tongs?
 
Can I ask you beatlloydy , without seeming to come across abruptly ...
Whats a situation in catching a wild eastern brown ,that you would resort to using tongs?

I would personally not touch a wild Eastern Brown (or any venomous snake for that matter) unless I had the appropriate licence. I am not even sure if I want to apply for that licence unless I do so with WIRES (still considering my committment options).

However, having said that I do come across them on an irregular basis in the backyard. I live 200-300 m from the Royal National Park as the crow flies and have frogs in a pond (free to come and go whenever they want) and about once every 2 years or so a brown snake is found in my yard....on all occasions so far I have only had to advance towards it (from a safe distance) and it has slithered under the fence and not been seen again.

If the brown was say in my house trapped in a corner (we do occasionally leave the back door open) there is a remote possibility I would consider tongs....I dont really know as I dont have the experience yet...I guess it would really depend on the situation but I think I would be far too cautious to try and tail one...I have seen them in demonstrations rise up on the tailing handler, strike once and then as they flick them down come up just as quickly.

To be honest I probably would walk away from an Eastern brown...dont really know until I come across it.

My point of tonging is that this "seems" like a relatively safe method for the licenced catcher...much safer in my "limited experience" opionion than tailing.

I was merely in my post trying to reassure the "flamers" (not saying you are RBB) that the Tonging method was not used on live snakes...but only practiced on rubber snakes as the method does involve a higher level of stress to the snake.

I dont have any equipment, nor am I licenced...I merely did the course to assist in my knowledge...I learnt a lot, not just about handling snakes but also about how they are more afraid of us than they are as well as their general behaviour patterns in the wild and the many myths surrounding them.

I see snakes several times a week out MTB'ing and they give me a wide berth and so do I...we have a mutual respect for each other. I intend to continue with this philosphy as so far I have been bite free and intend to stay that way.

I am not a rash 14-16 YO on this forum...I have 46 years of wisdom (never been critically injured in any accident tho I do risky sports MTB/Surfing etc) and I use this "wisdom" and cautiousness to prolong my life whilst still maintaining a quality that adrenalin based sports give. I intend to live a long life as I have a wife and 3 beautiful daughters to support. Snakes give me a thrill...but to be honest they also scare the heck out of me..hence another reason why I did the course...I could not have learnt this much in 10 years as I did in 2 days as you just dont get the exposure to all the different species unless you are prepared to help all around the countryside...I know they will behave completely different in the wild but just to see their majestic beauty was awe inspiring.
 
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Best not to attempt to touch a cornered eastern brown ...Thats what happened to me last night ,callout to an eastern brown that had been injured very badly by them attempting to kill her with a shovel ..they missed killing her ,and left her with her bowel and other insides hanging out .(about a five footer plus).
She was like that for 5 hours before I caught her ..5 hours of agonising pain and fearful being in a shed corner and on an unfamiliar ground ,which was smooth concrete ,snakes dont move well on that flooring ...
Anyway by the time I had to get her ,she was pissed off to the max in alot of pain ..and in a corner ...great combination to do a call ...I had to pin her ,which I dont like using ..but as she was coming at me multiple times and I couldnt get behind her due to being in the corner and shed was full of CRAP!! ..so that makes it even more dangerous as so much can trip you up or your limitations are full blown to the max ..

Anyhow ..after pinning her for a bit ,she decided to move out of the corner ..and got into a better situation that made me able to catch her ,tailed her but she was biting my bag and biting my hook as I tried to lift her head up and slide it down ..she was in pain ..got her in my bag ,and took her home .where I had to euth her ..poor darlin is now out of pain and her carcass is feeding my local yabbies down at the creek .

So great you felt that doing a course would inhance your skills and open your mind up about vens etc ..but if you feel out of your depth ..leave it to someone that can do it ...and as far as the tong issue goes I wont be changing my mind so beg to differ on that debate ...;)
 
THanks for a great post beatlloydy! Great summary of the course and your experiences and good to hear it from a nervous newbie perspective! What further steps are required for licensing? And what was the cost of the course? (PM me if you like)
 
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