Tap Training and other ideas

[dragonlover1]

While I admit up front I am not a long time snake owner, I have had dragons for 20 years or so. So when I bought my first Ants 4 years ago I started feeding them the same way I have always fed my dragons by tapping on the glass. I know a lot of people say this doesn't work and some will say it is possible, I am here to tell you it works every time, I guarentee it does.
Every Saturday ( except for sloughing & brumation ) for the last 4 years my little guys hear me tapping on the glass with the tongs and come looking for a feed.

Another thing that has come to my attention: No need to heat up rodents to feed snakes !
My son brought this up several weeks ago and I have tried it and it works. Just bring the mice up to room temp and BANG all gone. No more mucking around.
Makes me wonder why for so long everyone has talked about how to heat up food items when it seems there is no need, maybe it doesn't work for elapids ? I don't know !
Maybe large pythons need hot food too, but we have a 7' coastal as our largest and she takes her jumbo rat room temp.
Anyway something to think about

 

[Benno87]

I’ve got a jungle jag that will not strike at all unless his mouse has come straight out of hot tap water.

 

[CF Constrictor]

Hi Dragonlover1
I have 2 coastals and a young bredli . About 10 or 15 minutes before i feed them , i tap on there enclosure lid a few times lightly with my finger , then drop there thawed food items in a ziplock bag in some warm water for 10 or 15 minutes just to take the chill off. They have learned that it means dinnertime and assume hunting position in anticipation. When i want to take them out of there enclosure for any reason i just open the lid without tapping and reach in and grab them. They are not cage defensive at all and have never bitten me in this situation. So yes it works just fine.

 

[Herpetology]

I’ve always tapped on their enclosure before feeding, and they always come darting out of their hides.. I find it does have some sort of an impact on their feed response rather than just going in and putting food in their face

 

[LilithLeChat]

Tap training here too... the only drawback is when the diamond is out of sync with the other two. Her enclosure is on the opposite side of the room from the other two and she still feels the vibrations and assumes the strike position. I know not to handle her that day because she’s expecting food.
Bredli and Jungle only react when I tap on their respective enclosures.

 

[Herpetology]

Another thing that has come to my attention: No need to heat up rodents to feed snakes !

I just make sure there’s no cold spot and food is floppy

 

[LilithLeChat]

Jungle’s response to tapping is at the start, although it was slower and more cautious than usual as she was deeply asleep behind the throne.

 

[dragonlover1]

I just make sure there’s no cold spot and food is floppy

we leave them out overnight so they are def defrosted

 

[Sdaji]

Tapping will work. They probably don't hear it but will feel the vibration.

Some snakes respond strongly to heat, others don't care. Most snakes can't detect infrared (this is a specialty of pythons and pit vipers). Not all pythons are very fussed. The world's most popular pet snake, the Ball Python is one of the world's most fussy when it comes to having warm prey. This isn't relevant to Australian keepers but almost everywhere else in the world, Ball Pythons are the main snake being kept, so the story about how important warming the prey is, is now pretty common. Some individual Antaresia are fussy about how warm the prey are, others don't care, most can learn to take cool/tepid prey.

 

[Ramsayi]

Don't understand the entire 'tapping' thing given that they know well in advance that their is food on the way.

 

[Yellowtail]

Tapping will work. They probably don't hear it but will feel the vibration.

Some snakes respond strongly to heat, others don't care. Most snakes can't detect infrared (this is a specialty of pythons and pit vipers). Not all pythons are very fussed. The world's most popular pet snake, the Ball Python is one of the world's most fussy when it comes to having warm prey. This isn't relevant to Australian keepers but almost everywhere else in the world, Ball Pythons are the main snake being kept, so the story about how important warming the prey is, is now pretty common. Some individual Antaresia are fussy about how warm the prey are, others don't care, most can learn to take cool/tepid prey.

I find that most of my good established feeders are not fussy about food temperature and will grab anything that smells like food but a few and especially some hatchling albino Darwins seem to rely on the heat image and just don't recognise food unless it is 40-42c. With the hatchlings this is not learned behaviour as it is apparent from their first feed and they have no interest in a 35c mouse, strange because their natural prey includes lizards and frogs that are generally not hotter than the ambient summer temp of their natural environment, especially at night.

As for tapping I used to keep diamonds in large 8x 2m aviaries and they would come out of their hides and approach the door when I tapped on the steel frame, tried it without food present with the same result.

 

[LilithLeChat]

I just spent half an hour tied to the chair because my lovely diamond decided it’s feeding time.

Why?

Well, she pooped ON the wall of her enclosure in hard to reach spot. I opened the door on “not feeding time” side and she came out and wrapped around my wrist as she does when I let her out. I removed the water bowl and soiled newspapers, and placed the water bowl on the chair next to the enclosure. I replaced fresh newspapers.

So far, so good.

To get to the poop, I had to open the door on “feeding time” side.
As soon as I slid the glass open, I felt sudden tightening on my wrist. I looked at her and she’s hanging off my wrist in strike pose, almost vibrating with anticipation. Time to freeze and decide what to do next.

The backrest of the chair is a metal lattice, and she loves wrapping around it. Slowly I brought her closer to the chair and lowered her head onto it.

Bad mistake. Very bad.

She pushed her head and neck through the lattice and wrapped tight, while hanging her head down in strike pose. She’s still strangling my wrist.

The hooks, spray water bottle and spray metho bottle are on top of the enclosures on the opposite side of the room. And I’m tied to the chair by Cassandra’s body.

Ok, give her time. She’ll let go eventually.

Nope.

My hand is a nice shade of purple by now and I can’t feel my fingers. But at least she’s not biting me.

Eventually I realise that my Fitbit is due to vibrate soon to remind me it’s time for a walk. I don’t want to see what will happen if it vibrates while she’s wrapped around it.

I slipped my singlet off the free arm and over my head and pulled it down the trapped arm and over Cassandra. She tightens even more (didn’t think it was possible) but still doesn’t try to bite.

I drag the chair across the room so I have a hook and spray bottles ready just in case.

With my singlet over her head, I use the free arm to unwrap her and redirect her tail to the lattice.

It worked!

I dragged the chair back to her enclosure with her wrapped around it, closed “feeding time” side and opened “not feeding time” side. I used the hook to direct her head into the enclosure, and hooray! The rest of the body followed.

I shut the door and try to massage life back into my hand.

The water bowl is still out and poop is still stuck to the wall.

I’ll give it a few hours and put her in the tub before I attempt to finish cleaning.

TL;DR version: if you always open the door on the same side to toss the rat in, your snake will think it’s food time every time you open that door. Even if she is on the outside of the enclosure.

 

[dragonlover1]

I just spent half an hour tied to the chair because my lovely diamond decided it’s feeding time.

Why?

Well, she pooped ON the wall of her enclosure in hard to reach spot. I opened the door on “not feeding time” side and she came out and wrapped around my wrist as she does when I let her out. I removed the water bowl and soiled newspapers, and placed the water bowl on the chair next to the enclosure. I replaced fresh newspapers.

So far, so good.

To get to the poop, I had to open the door on “feeding time” side.
As soon as I slid the glass open, I felt sudden tightening on my wrist. I looked at her and she’s hanging off my wrist in strike pose, almost vibrating with anticipation. Time to freeze and decide what to do next.

The backrest of the chair is a metal lattice, and she loves wrapping around it. Slowly I brought her closer to the chair and lowered her head onto it.

Bad mistake. Very bad.

She pushed her head and neck through the lattice and wrapped tight, while hanging her head down in strike pose. She’s still strangling my wrist.

The hooks, spray water bottle and spray metho bottle are on top of the enclosures on the opposite side of the room. And I’m tied to the chair by Cassandra’s body.

Ok, give her time. She’ll let go eventually.

Nope.

My hand is a nice shade of purple by now and I can’t feel my fingers. But at least she’s not biting me.

Eventually I realise that my Fitbit is due to vibrate soon to remind me it’s time for a walk. I don’t want to see what will happen if it vibrates while she’s wrapped around it.

I slipped my singlet off the free arm and over my head and pulled it down the trapped arm and over Cassandra. She tightens even more (didn’t think it was possible) but still doesn’t try to bite.

I drag the chair across the room so I have a hook and spray bottles ready just in case.

With my singlet over her head, I use the free arm to unwrap her and redirect her tail to the lattice.

It worked!

I dragged the chair back to her enclosure with her wrapped around it, closed “feeding time” side and opened “not feeding time” side. I used the hook to direct her head into the enclosure, and hooray! The rest of the body followed.

I shut the door and try to massage life back into my hand.

The water bowl is still out and poop is still stuck to the wall.

I’ll give it a few hours and put her in the tub before I attempt to finish cleaning.

TL;DR version: if you always open the door on the same side to toss the rat in, your snake will think it’s food time every time you open that door. Even if she is on the outside of the enclosure.

The only thing wrong with APS is the response , On crackbook you have several to choose from, like,laugh,wow,angry or hate. These need to be added here.
I would have added a laugh here otherwise my comment doesn't make sense

 

[LilithLeChat]

I thought so. I would have laughed at the time this was happening, but I thought it would be prudent no keep movement to absolute minimum.

Another fun part is that normally I have my mobile almost surgically attached to my hand, but this time I’ve left it in my bag in the lounge room. Couldn’t even ring my husband, who was in the yard, or my in-laws upstairs, to come and help me. So I’m yelling out everyone’s names and nobody heard over the noise of the lawnmower.

 

[dragonlover1]

I just spent half an hour tied to the chair because my lovely diamond decided it’s feeding time.

Why?

Well, she pooped ON the wall of her enclosure in hard to reach spot. I opened the door on “not feeding time” side and she came out and wrapped around my wrist as she does when I let her out. I removed the water bowl and soiled newspapers, and placed the water bowl on the chair next to the enclosure. I replaced fresh newspapers.

So far, so good.

To get to the poop, I had to open the door on “feeding time” side..


TL;DR version: if you always open the door on the same side to toss the rat in, your snake will think it’s food time every time you open that door. Even if she is on the outside of the enclosure.

interesting you have different doors in your routine, I just have the tap routine, if it's feed time I tap, if it's play time no tap but same door
[doublepost=1577345763,1577345730][/doublepost]

I thought so. I would have laughed at the time this was happening, but I thought it would be prudent no keep movement to absolute minimum.

Another fun part is that normally I have my mobile almost surgically attached to my hand, but this time I’ve left it in my bag in the lounge room. Couldn’t even ring my husband, who was in the yard, or my in-laws upstairs, to come and help me. So I’m yelling out everyone’s names and nobody heard over the noise of the lawnmower.

haha
[doublepost=1577346085][/doublepost]

I thought so. I would have laughed at the time this was happening, but I thought it would be prudent no keep movement to absolute minimum.

Another fun part is that normally I have my mobile almost surgically attached to my hand, but this time I’ve left it in my bag in the lounge room. Couldn’t even ring my husband, who was in the yard, or my in-laws upstairs, to come and help me. So I’m yelling out everyone’s names and nobody heard over the noise of the lawnmower.

one time my spotted bit and wrapped my arm I just stuck her head under the running tap to make her let go

 

[LilithLeChat]

Cassandra (the diamond) has very explosive feeding response, and so I toss the rat in from the side that’s protected by some obstacles between her favourite basking spot and my hand.
[doublepost=1577348851,1577348516][/doublepost]The only one of my three that bit me is the bredli, she did the bite and wrap and the only way for her to let go was to dunk her head in her water bowl. She was just under 2m long at the time and wrapped her entire body from my wrist almost to my elbow.
The inside of her enclosure looked like a set from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and the water was quite red.
When I feed her, I put a rat in a tub and tub inside her enclosure. When I need to clean, I put an empty tub inside so when she goes in, lid goes on, I take the tub with her outside and clean the enclosure. Less stress for both of us that way.

 

[GBWhite]

Don't understand the entire 'tapping' thing given that they know well in advance that their is food on the way.

Yeah I don't either. I've always kept my snakes either in a secured locked room within the house or a shed separate from the house and always defrosted the rodents to room temp in an area of the house quite some distance from where the snakes are/were kept and as soon as I enter(ed) the snake room they are/were always displaying activity indicating they are/were aware that food was on the way. I used to have a bank of 20 separate enclosures in a shed about 25 metres away from the house full of Death Adders and as soon as I'd open the door and walk in I couldn't help notice all engaged in caudal luring.

 

[dragonlover1]

Every body has their own method and I wouldn't say any one method was wrong. Each to their own, I was just offering my experience and if it helps somebody out then that is great. This place is about helping each other .

 

[Ramsayi]

Yeah I don't either. I've always kept my snakes either in a secured locked room within the house or a shed separate from the house and always defrosted the rodents to room temp in an area of the house quite some distance from where the snakes are/were kept and as soon as I enter(ed) the snake room they are/were always displaying activity indicating they are/were aware that food was on the way. I used to have a bank of 20 separate enclosures in a shed about 25 metres away from the house full of Death Adders and as soon as I'd open the door and walk in I couldn't help notice all engaged in caudal luring.

Slightly different here in that we thaw in buckets of hot water in the laundry which is a fair way away from our snake rooms.By the time their food is ready they all know,takes under 10 minutes to feed 30 something animals.The only thing that may be interpreted as conditioning is that we only feed of a night but then again given that they are nocturnal it may just be more natural for them.Of a day all of them are very placid,night however is another story altogether.Been doing it that way for more years than I care to remember.

 

[GBWhite]

Every body has their own method and I wouldn't say any one method was wrong. Each to their own, I was just offering my experience and if it helps somebody out then that is great. This place is about helping each other .

Hi mate,

Yes every body has their own method and I don't see anything wrong with tapping prior to feeding if that's what some prefer to do. I wasn't trying to be critical of anyone I was just responding to Ramsayi's post.

Cheers.