Thawing pros and cons
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wildthings
Well-Known Member
I have a defrost setting on my oven which I use to thaw rats, I pop the rat into a sandwich bag and into the oven, takes about half hour for the big rats and about 15 mins to thaw a few pinkies and velvets together, once they are just cold not frozen I then put them into hot water from the tap, which is around 60 degrees, it takes another half hour to get the big rats warmed through and I have to change the water three times during that half hour coz it cools..the pinkies and velvets don't take long at all to warm all the way through and I don't need to change the water for the little ones, it stays hot..and that's the only way I've ever done it.. 
saximus
Almost Legendary
I have a defrost setting on my oven which I use to thaw rats, I pop the rat into a sandwich bag and into the oven, takes about half hour for the big rats and about 15 mins to thaw a few pinkies and velvets together, once they are just cold not frozen I then put them into hot water from the tap, which is around 60 degrees, it takes another half hour to get the big rats warmed through and I have to change the water three times during that half hour coz it cools..the pinkies and velvets don't take long at all to warm all the way through and I don't need to change the water for the little ones, it stays hot..and that's the only way I've ever done it..
That seems like a great deal of unnecessary effort. I defrost in hot tap water and only need to change it once even if I’m doing three or four larger rats in the same container.
To the OP, the main pros I know of for hot water method is the time it takes (only 15-20 mins for large rats) and the fact that wet rats give a little extra hydration to the animals eating them. The only con I know of with this method is that loose substrates stick to them. That can be helped by either having a substrate free section in the enclosure to feed them on, feeding them in a tub outside the enclosure or patting them dry with a paper towel though.
I defrost rats either on the bench over night (not on warm nights), or in the fridge for a day. That way I only have to warm them, I don't have to worry if they're defrosted the whole way through. I don't like defrosting them in the warm water, because I feel like the longer they spend warm the greater the risk they'll start going funky.
After defrosting slowly, I warm them in hot water from the tap so they're more appetising.
After defrosting slowly, I warm them in hot water from the tap so they're more appetising.
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borntobnude
Guest
popped into a zip seal bag , placed into an ice cream container and thawed for an hour or two , then hot water added to warm up the feed
joelysmoley
Well-Known Member
Is it necessary to warm the rat? because my snake still takes the rat when its cold/room temp.
sd1981
Well-Known Member
I thaw mine in warm water for 15-30 minutes depending on size (bigger = more time in the water and you can go a bit hotter) and in they go, my lacies smash the bejesus out of them, I've used the same method for all herps kept and never had any issues or rejections of food...
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wokka
Guest
That depends upon the room temperature. Warming a rat before feeding assists digestion as the snake doesn't have to "waste" heat bringing the feed up to heat. The quicker the snake and food item gets hot the quicker the snake will metabolise and digest the food. Looking at it another way, if you feed a cool food item to a cool snake the rate of digestion may be slow and the food may go off in the snake, so you shouldn't feed snakes if heat is not available.
joelysmoley
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks the info.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Fresh killed rodents from a good clean source, that are well fed nutritionally is the best feed. But frozen, thawed is fine and its all I do now. The big pro - dont have to keep smelly rodents.
jack
Very Well-Known Member
ditto that.
Frozen rodents, bucket of hot water. Easy
Frozen rodents, bucket of hot water. Easy
OldestMagician
Well-Known Member
I submerge a water tight container in hot water for a while and finish off by sitting the rat in warm water to heat it up. I dry with tissue before feeding.
Unclewo-wo
Active Member
Ok I have previously been doing the method if thawing with hot water from the tap(working fine) but if I come across a fussy feeder can I put then back in the freezer and try again? So the method of thawing in the sink(no water) for a few hours or in the fridge had been mentioned to me a few weeks ago and I have it a try with these results.
Boy one smashed the mouse wrapped it up held it tight but when it come to eating it seemed as if he could not distinguish between the ends(head or tail)
So I have been thawing in the bench and dipping only the head in warm water from the tap for a minute and that has solved that
Now the other boy wants nothing to do with that method period
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Boy one smashed the mouse wrapped it up held it tight but when it come to eating it seemed as if he could not distinguish between the ends(head or tail)
So I have been thawing in the bench and dipping only the head in warm water from the tap for a minute and that has solved that
Now the other boy wants nothing to do with that method period
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
I don't like re-freezing a defrosted rat. This is because I feel like warming meat up allows any potential bacteria to start to grow again, and so it's more likely to go off. I know freezing should kill most bugs, but still. We're talking whole animals, which means intact bowels, which means bacteria.
I give the leftovers to other snakes. I prefer to feed my animals in shifts, half the snakes in one feed, half the next. That way, there's always someone who'd be willing to accept the leftovers and I don't feel like I'm wasting anything. It works for me because I only have adults and I feed everyone fortnightly. Anyone who rejects gets a new offer next weekend. I know hatchies are usually fed more often, which means it's harder. If you have the time, I think it's worthwhile.
I give the leftovers to other snakes. I prefer to feed my animals in shifts, half the snakes in one feed, half the next. That way, there's always someone who'd be willing to accept the leftovers and I don't feel like I'm wasting anything. It works for me because I only have adults and I feed everyone fortnightly. Anyone who rejects gets a new offer next weekend. I know hatchies are usually fed more often, which means it's harder. If you have the time, I think it's worthwhile.
RedFox
Very Well-Known Member
There is no harm in refreezing a rat if it has gone through a relatively short thawing process. While like ramy said there is more chance for bacteria to grow, due to the time it takes a snake to digest its food, they can handle considerably more bacteria than we can.
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Pythoninfinite
Guest
Owing to the time your rats are out of the freezer, you're actually allowing them to ferment more than if you drop them into hot water for 20-30 mins and then feed them off. Thawing quickly is a far safer option than leaving them lying around at room temp overnight. All you have to do is press your finger into the gut to see if they're fully thawed, and if not leave another 5 minutes. We're only talking hot water from the tap, not boiling water. This also means if they are uneaten, you can refreeze with confidence. If they've been at room temp overnight and you refreeze, you will have a bit of decay starting by the time you thaw them again.
There are heaps of threads on this subject here on APS.
Jamie
wildthings
Well-Known Member
Entirely normal for youngsters, my littlest, 9 months old eats her backward as well as forwards and has had a go at sideways but gave up.on that position.. when she first arrived she wouldn't eat in front of me, she wouldn't even take it from me, even though it was obvious she wanted it, so I would leave it next to her and go away and come back 5 minutes later and the food was always gone, two sheds ago she finally struck and constricted and now she is on two pinkies per feed, she takes the second one from me like a well trained dog, very gently lol... and I do go to a bit of trouble as far as getting their food ready for them, to the point I take the temp of heated rats to make sure they're at 38 degrees before I offer to the pythons and as far as re-freezing, most mums will tell you it's a no-no because of bacteria and unfortunately freezing doesn't kill all bacteria or viruses...Ok I have previously been doing the method if thawing with hot water from the tap(working fine) but if I come across a fussy feeder can I put then back in the freezer and try again? So the method of thawing in the sink(no water) for a few hours or in the fridge had been mentioned to me a few weeks ago and I have it a try with these results.
Boy one smashed the mouse wrapped it up held it tight but when it come to eating it seemed as if he could not distinguish between the ends(head or tail)
So I have been thawing in the bench and dipping only the head in warm water from the tap for a minute and that has solved that
Now the other boy wants nothing to do with that method period
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
I keep making the point that refreezing (once) of relatively fresh rodents causes absolutely no harm to pythons when they eventually eat it. Firstly, the rodents are already fully guy-loaded with heaps of bacteria, and secondly (and most importantly) in many cases when a large meal is eaten, it is literally days before the digestive juices get to all parts of the food item and neutralise any decay bacteria. Think of a Burmese or retic that has eaten a deer or goat or pig, and the bulge remains for 2-3 weeks - that animal is actually rotting in the snake's gut before the bacteria are neutralised by stomach acid and enzymes. The same thing happens if we give a large rat to a medium snake and the bulge is there for 3-4 days.
It is faulty thinking to compare the digestion of snakes to that of humans - just like dogs can bury a tasty morsel and dig it up a week or two later and eat it without harm. Most meat-eaters can eat carrion without getting sick. Humans were probably the same before we lost our immunity to decay bacteria.
Jamie
It is faulty thinking to compare the digestion of snakes to that of humans - just like dogs can bury a tasty morsel and dig it up a week or two later and eat it without harm. Most meat-eaters can eat carrion without getting sick. Humans were probably the same before we lost our immunity to decay bacteria.
Jamie
Ultimately, I'll do what makes me feel the most comfortable. I'm not doing any harm, and it's very much a matter of opinion. Unless someone has actually done cultures to see what bacteria is present when, it's mostly speculation.
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wokka
Guest
You dont need to make cultures. It is widely understood that freezing slows or kills bacteria and that as temperature increases so to does bacterial growth and multiplication. If the aim is to minimise bacterial growth, then time between freezing and consumption into the gastric juices of the snake, should be minimised.
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