'07 jags PICS!!!! (MAJOR DUW!!)

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l don't know for sure, but isn't the claim that they are Australian Jags??
If that is the case, there is no misleading. They are not claiming to have animals from overseas linage. If something is bred genetically, then it should be able to be reproduced when it is bred. If it is bred to a normal ie Oz Jag x Normal Mcdowelli, then a percentage of the clutch would /should carry the traits on, just like breeding anything else. (I think)(genetics aren't my strong suit lol.)
As for the light blue eyes etc etc, I have seen Jags with redish eyes, silver eyes, light blue eyes, copper eyes etc etc. I have even seen the odd one with pretty normal darkish eyes.
We only generally see breeder's best examples don't we??!! I know when I post some pics I want to show my nicest animals, not the less exciting one's. It's the same with Jags, if you look long enough, you will find all different levels of quality's found in each type of animal.
 
Ohh... and for the record.. If they are real, as real as they get (for an australian produced animal) That is an "Aust. Jag", then I want one too!!!
Infact I'd love a breeding trio please!!!
 
SnakePower said:
l don't know for sure, but isn't the claim that they are Australian Jags??
If that is the case, there is no misleading. They are not claiming to have animals from overseas linage. If something is bred genetically, then it should be able to be reproduced when it is bred. If it is bred to a normal ie Oz Jag x Normal Mcdowelli, then a percentage of the clutch would /should carry the traits on, just like breeding anything else. (I think)(genetics aren't my strong suit lol.)
As for the light blue eyes etc etc, I have seen Jags with redish eyes, silver eyes, light blue eyes, copper eyes etc etc. I have even seen the odd one with pretty normal darkish eyes.
We only generally see breeder's best examples don't we??!! I know when I post some pics I want to show my nicest animals, not the less exciting one's. It's the same with Jags, if you look long enough, you will find all different levels of quality's found in each type of animal.
Click to expand...

It all depends on how the gene expresses itself, if it is a recessive trait an aus jag over anything else will produce hets that look normal. If it is dominant you will see the gene express itself in the patterning etc.

If they are aussie jags and they do the same things genetically as the Ueropean ones then you are right it is not misleading. But if they don't, if they are just reduced pattern carpets then that is misleading.

Like i said earlier jags are a visual het for leucism, if not for something else. That is one of the things that sets them apart from everything else.
 
Yes, but saying that, it doesn't really matter in regards to the leucism, if at this stage, there haven't been any Leucies that have survived! Obviously a leucistic animal would be awesome, but no-one is actually there yet. At least that we know of!!
In regards to the gene... I remember in the thread on this topic on the US website, the gene was a dominant. The parenting animal of the Australian jag looked like the one they talked about, similar characteristics, just not as good as it's prodegy. Siblings were also posted and carried the characteristics too, so the gene must have been dominant.
Therefore when bred the genetics would be reproduced, making the animal, one generation better again.

AND... I STILL WANT SOME!!!!
 
SnakePower said:
Yes, but saying that, it doesn't really matter in regards to the leucism, if at this stage, there haven't been any Leucies that have survived! Obviously a leucistic animal would be awesome, but no-one is actually there yet. At least that we know of!!
In regards to the gene... I remember in the thread on this topic on the US website, the gene was a dominant. The parenting animal of the Australian jag looked like the one they talked about, similar characteristics, just not as good as it's prodegy. Siblings were also posted and carried the characteristics too, so the gene must have been dominant.
Therefore when bred the genetics would be reproduced, making the animal, one generation better again.

AND... I STILL WANT SOME!!!!
Click to expand...

progeny ;) though, prodigy also works :)
 
Auzlizardking said:
No one has said there are US Jags - they are Aust bred Jags
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Pics or they don't exist......LOL. Here too many rumours of so called morphs being around. Most of which turn out to be crap. As far as I am concerned if you can't provide a pic of the animal on a current Australian newspaper, then it doesn't exist.
 
First off, let me introduce myself! :)

My name is Matt, as seen by my screen name, and I am from Mississippi, USA. I have known some of the guys here for quite some time from a US forum. It's always glad to get the perspective of guys "down under" because the very species I love to work with live in your yards! That kills me.

Anyway, I really didn't want my first post to be like this, but it seems that maybe I should clear a few things up. First, thank you for all of the kind words. These animals truly are breathtaking, and I'm glad you like them. Second, just a little history on the morph itself. Jaguars originated from a line of Coastals in Europe back in the mid 90's. The founding animal (male) randomly hatched from a clutch from normal parents. This random mutation effected the pattern and color of this offspring. Jan Eric bred this animal to other females and the mutation seemd to be of a codom nature because it was represented in approximately half of the offspring. The gene not only effects the jaguars, but the siblings as well. The gene can take ordinary color combinations and intensify them far beyond what selective breedings have accomplished in the past. There has been speculation and rumor that the original Jags were the result of crossing an Irian Jaya to a Coastal. I can not dispute that becuase I do not know. What I can say is that there is NO evidence to support this claim, so therefore, I am going to trust the founder of this morph. I have no reason to believe he would lie about the origins. He very well might, but the evidence doesn't lead me to believe so.

What seperates the European line of Jagurs from anything in Aussie is the fact that Jaguars are hets for leucism. Jaguars are NOT selectively bred reduced pattern carpets. They are not the result of generations of selective breeding. They are a genetic mutation that has key identifying chracteristics that set them apart from other reduced pattern lines. You, in Australia, do in fact have some amazingly gorgeous reduced carpets that have patterns similar to that of Jaguars. The difference is that yours do not produce Leucies, and doesn't appear to be of a codom nature. If you do have them there then they were illegally obtained. I wish there was a way to legally allow you the opprtunity to work with them, and I certainly wish we could import some of your pure animals. Trust me, I WANT SOME OF YOUR SNAKES BAD!!! LOL!!

There are a lot of arguments out there trying to dispute the origins and uniqueness of Jags, and hopefully some of this will clear it up a bit. This is the info I have and trust it the truth. Now lets talk snakes!
 
welcome matt, hope you enjoy yourself here, i'm sure we all want to see more of your snakes:D:D
 
Hey Matt and welcome to the site. Some people find it a bit difficult to understand that you cannot reproduce a trait like that here. Animals that re similar for sure, but not the actual 'Jag' lines. Although, illegal ones are here and it is only a matter of time before they will pop up. It is not suprising people are tying to push the issue of "Aussie Jags".
 
There is as always more to the story.
As for the jags being pure macdowelli, it depends on who you listen to. I am on the side that questions the origins of the founder animal and from the best information I can get it we will likley never be known for certain. There is plenty of room for doubt int he original story about where they came from. Just becuase someone gets online and claims something does not make it true, regardless who they are.

There is also absolutley no evidence that suggests that there is more than one gene involved, Thats more about clever marketing than anything else . I quick look at coastal jag siblings produced this year will show nothing more than anyone would expect.

There are also several variants that poeple have named and marketed as if they were seperate morphs, this is also a bit misleading. The terms "hypo" "red hypo" etc. None of these forms has ever proven to be inheritable in a predictable manner, rather they represent the normal variation within a clutch. the mutation is highly variable and all carpets are also highly variable so in any jag clutch there can be a huge degree of variation, but it does not mean that they are actually differnt morphs, wich they are often described as.

The mutation is homozygous lethal, all the homozygous offspring(leucistics) have failed to survive or even leave the egg complelty. Its unlikley that there will ever be a live Luecistic from this line as they have been outcrossed and bred to every other subspecies of carpet availble and there has yet to be a viable luecistic.

On the Aussie Jags. There have been Rumors around for a few years now about Jags being smuggled from Europe to Australia so its not surprising. Everyone knows there is a thriving market for exotics so it was just a matter of time. there will eventually be lots of Aussie bred jags but will all trace back to illegal imports.

Nick
 
Hi Matt, good to see you on here. Be prepared for some flack if you hang around ;-)

Thanks for hopefully clearing it up for a few people, it really seem quite a simple conscept to grasp.
If I sat in my garage for 6 months with a big hammer and some spanners and buitly myself a Ferrari, it wouldn't in fact be a Ferrari, it would be a replica of a Ferrari.
 
Welcome Matt. I will meet you at Sydney departure lounge with a pocketful of Diamond and Coastal hatchies for a pair of Jags. You seem like a nice bloke so don't tell customs and act very cool.
 
better make that 2 pairs of jags, i'm sure i'll have something you want, haha, welcome matt, i'm a member of the usa site and never get tired of seeing the jag pics posted,
 
there was a carpet caught on a snake call in south east qld a few years back that is pretty much identical to the original jag.
I have a couple of pis of this animal but cant seem to load them onto my computer from the disc.
I will get someone to help me and then post them here for all to see.
This animal is extremely impressive and is as much a jag as the original animal.
 
I am very much looking forward to seeing that photo, you know what they say photo or it didn't happen ;-)
 
There have been quite a few Jags illegally smuggled into Australia over the last few years. Its only a matter of time till they start to surface into the markets. You have to wonder what stories are going to be told to warrant having these beautiful snakes here in this country. It would be very easy for the authorities to confirm wether these snakes are infact related to Erics line by a simple DNA test
 
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