400+ species found in feral cats stomachs

[zack13]

So you've nothing worth saying to add to this discussion then, hence resorted to personal attacks.

While I'm not Netteddragon I don't think there is much point. You claim to know what cats are thinking (not sure if you can speak cat or something0 and that pet cats do more harm than feral cats. Which clearly would not be the case. You have showed no evidence of any of the claims you have made.
Then when someone puts forward the most logical, thoughtful and best post of the thread, which in no way defended cats at all you told them to stop pandering to pro-cat lobby.
You don't seem like someone who can be reasoned with. So why bother you aren't going to take anything onboard.

 

[Bushman]

There's no need for anyone to get personal when discussing this or any other topic.
Please attack the argument, not the person.

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

Lol I like how some of you especially you knobbys fancy yourselves as some sort of hero of justice for Mother Nature... Tell me if Mother Nature became a conscious entity which species do you think it would class as vermin 1st? Cats? No it would be humans growing in number and spreading at an uncontrollable and unsustainable rate using up all natural resources polluting the air land and ocean wiping out species, INTRODUCING ANIMALS TO ECOSYSTEMS THEY DONT BELONG TO.
The list go's on and on.. but don't worry your making up for it all by killing a few pet cats...

 

[i_am_snake]

If i trap and kill a feral cat, wherever he is caught (down the track, suburban bushland or wherever else i can find them) i have directly stopped that cat from killing dozens, hundreds, potentially thousands of small native reptiles and mammals. And stopped it from reproducing. That in itself is worth something.

A hell of a lot more work needs to be done by us people who give a damn like getting our govts to really take notice. and changing attitudes of the majority. yes humans are to blame, yes we are the worst but if you see yourself as the problem, or unable to make an impact, you can never become apart of the solution. That goes for all our ecological tragedies. Humanity is capable of great things, anything is possible in todays world. But its so hard to realise this when we're shrouded in the negativity and helplessness caused todays modern society.

But if i save the life of even one native animal, it was worth it....

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

I'm not saying feral cats are a problem that shouldn't be looked at but I highly doubt any of the people on this thread making statements about killing all cats on site and using words like murder and torture harping on about their impact has ever even thought about their own impact on the environment through things like the everyday household items and chemicals used in the kitchen toilet garden etc. products they use on there cars ,bikes that pollute the water and air then there's the process used to make these products that create toxic waste... I wonder if they've thought about the impact on the environment when there tucking into a juicy steak with some vegatables and the impacts farming has on the environment like herbicides pesticides manure run off from confined animals deforestation etc By your own reasoning we should start culling humans... point in case most green energy or sustainability face book pages have about 10,000 likes jump on Kim kardasian's page 25m likes....

It's good that you've saved a native animal from a death that would be directly caused by humans but what's the point if it then just go's and gets killed ingesting or getting caught up in some chemical waste or plastic...

Again I agree we need to do something about the problems we have caused like feral cats and cane toads etc and have penalties for negligent owners of cats but just killing people's pets isn't the answer....

 

[kingofnobbys]

Lol I like how some of you especially you knobbys fancy yourselves as some sort of hero of justice for Mother Nature... Tell me if Mother Nature became a conscious entity which species do you think it would class as vermin 1st? Cats? No it would be humans growing in number and spreading at an uncontrollable and unsustainable rate using up all natural resources polluting the air land and ocean wiping out species, INTRODUCING ANIMALS TO ECOSYSTEMS THEY DONT BELONG TO.
The list go's on and on.. but don't worry your making up for it all by killing a few pet cats...

I have rescued (sometimes the animal had a cat in hot pursuit or I caught a cat in the act and I intervened by attacking the cat to drive it off so I could rescue the animal) and I've nursed the rescues back to health -mostly reptiles (skinks mostly, some birds too) who have been mauled and seriously injured by neighbourhood cats , including giving them intensive care (daily doses of vet provided antibiotics both via intramuscular injections and oral doses). Some have recovered completely under my care (supervised by a vet) some have ultimately succumbed to SI caused directly by penetrating injuries inflected by these mongrel cats. Unfortunately some were too horribly mauled or had injuries the vet thought were beyond help and these were humainely and painlessly euphenised to put them out of their agony.

My reputation locally has spread and I regularly have local children and their parents bring native critters who have (nearly always) been a victim of a cat brought to me in the hope I can help them and I never turn a native animal in need away. (No I am not a member of WIRES.)

So in a way I am a local "hero of justice" for local native critters and have been proactive in helping them and trying to protect them. Can you say the same for yourself, would you even bother ?

Just because they are not pets or captive bred and thereby have no $ value doesn't mean they are any less entitled to being helped.

I've seen first hand the suffering inflicted by cats for the fun of it and have learnt to detest the darned animals , IMO the only good cat is a dead cat.

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

Well good on you making up for all the deaths you indirectly cause by the household products you use and food you eat. Ignorance must be bliss

 

[kingofnobbys]

Well good on you making up for all the deaths you indirectly cause by the household products you use and food you eat. Ignorance must be bliss

Well Prof, at least I'm being proactive and trying to help native animals. Can you say as much for yourself ?

 

[Grogshla]

no doubt feral cats are a problem but what can ya do. The government don't care they are too busy with other stuff. I would love them to do a wild cat cull 2 times a year but that won't happen

 

[i_am_snake]

its easy for people to get worked up about the things they care most about and go over the top. not to say they don't hold similar views about other continuing human made ecological nightmares. but change has to start somewhere, and if people can live more consciously about reducing waste, alternative transport, going green, eating organic and the rest we can also do our bit by knocking off feral animals whatever the species. and should be seen as a good thing.

i'd be lying if i said i didn't having anarchist views of erradicating the entire human species, or at least some of them, but on what criteria do we let them live? haha

the i'd think the odd's of a small native rep being swallowed by a wild moggie is much much higher than it ending up in toxic waste or trapped in plastic. but if we arent willing to do more for our environment the same end result is inevitable on the grand scale. but we have to start somewhere. and for some folk its cats.

its sad that sometimes a pet gets killed, but if they truly cared for its wellbeing they'd keep it contained to their house/yard.

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

I have helped rescue and looked after animals in the past when I've had to and I would do it for ANY injured animal... I've seen scumbags trying to run over a coastal carpet trying to cross the road and me and my mum have put ourselves between them and the snake what do you suppose was in there heads at the time?? The only good snake is a dead one......

picture the setting it's 1920 Tasmania 2 farmers are standing around having a chat one says to the other " got another one of those bloody mongrel murderous thylacines last night trying to kill me sheep the only good one is a dead one " and then some years later no more tassie tigers No different to your chain of thought just cats are not native....

and once again I'll agree feral cats need to be culled it's just people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones if you truly cared about native animals you would think further than killing some cats...

 

[Bluetongue1]

I chopped my original reply into two as it would have been too long. Here is the last part of that...

If you really want to be constructive, then find out what your local council already does and if you consider improvements are needed, then do something about it. For example, you could lobby local councillors and MPs for appropriate changes, write letters to local papers that publish input from their readers, or even put up notices on community bulletin boards, vet clinics, local libraries etc, to generate public awareness of the problem, and to encourage others to bring pressure to bear on local governments to implement appropriate changes. You could even locate councils that do have effective control measures in place and use these as exemplars that your own council could follow. These sorts of actions have a much better chance of achieving effective change, and change that will last, as compared to killing cats straying onto someone property (which are just as likely to be soon replaced.)

While I am not what you would call a ?cat lover?, I do not hate cats. What I do hate is the damage they do to native wildlife. It is not cats that created the problem, but irresponsible humans. I totally agree that the ultimate solution would be to eliminate all feral cats and strays and for all cat owners to responsibly manage their pets.

Government and private agencies have been working hard on the issue of control of feral cats for decades now. In many ways the situation is similar to the cane toad problem. We know that to solve these problems we need to get rid of the animals, or to at least reduce and then control their numbers. Yet to date, some of the brightest brains in the country have failed to come up with the required ?how?. An effective solution will be one that works on a large scale and not just locally; one that will work in all manner of habitats, not just one or three; and one that will stand the test of time and not see the animals develop a resistance or resilience to control. This is a truly daunting task but plenty of dedicated people are still chiselling away at it in the hope that they may yet discover the magical ?silver bullet?, or at least something close to it.

Blue


A few thoughts for today...

Heartwarming stories of cats and their precious animalbuddies is the same as 'Emotive argumentsthat anthropomorphically describe cats'. .....

It is interesting that you found the story ?heart warming?. It was, after all, only a factual recount of my observations i.e. no emotions were expressed or implied. Given this, how you can equate the above is beyond me.

....NO CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUTFOR A STROLL SHOULD BEALLOWED TO EXIST ALONG SIDE ANIMALS THAT IT COULDPOTENTIALLY HARM.

If one applied this logic to other animal species, then surely contact between any potentially dangerous reptile and humans could not be allowed. No contact with dogs would definitely ?be a no brainer?. What about animals like horses, which kill, on average, around 20 Australian people every year, along with numerous other animals (by kicking or trampling them). Not to mention the millions of bees kept in hives and so important in pollinating human food crops? Need I go on?

Notanthropomorphising at all, that's exactly what they do and why they do it -it's fun for them ,they're not the least bit hungry and not doing it becausethey are hungry.....

I have some other simple observations that explaint his quite well while provide clear examples that contradict your generalization. Would you like to know about them?

I have only just seen your latest posts (as I was about to paste this one). It is pleasing to note that you are doing something positive. I personally believe that assisting others to assist wildlife supports and strengthens their interest and concern - valuable attitudes to encourage in my book.

Dave (Rorybreaker), it is reassuring that you think of the old man that way. You might be pleased to know that I hate using Facebook.

One last genral comment before I bow out of this thread - I am too busy with other things. I must say that several of the arguments put forward have a very familiar ring about them. The onlything that is different is that when I last came across them, they were being used to support the contention that: ?The only good snake is a dead snake?.

Blue

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

its easy for people to get worked up about the things they care most about and go over the top. not to say they don't hold similar views about other continuing human made ecological nightmares. but change has to start somewhere, and if people can live more consciously about reducing waste, alternative transport, going green, eating organic and the rest we can also do our bit by knocking off feral animals whatever the species. and should be seen as a good thing.

i'd be lying if i said i didn't having anarchist views of erradicating the entire human species, or at least some of them, but on what criteria do we let them live? haha

the i'd think the odd's of a small native rep being swallowed by a wild moggie is much much higher than it ending up in toxic waste or trapped in plastic. but if we arent willing to do more for our environment the same end result is inevitable on the grand scale. but we have to start somewhere. and for some folk its cats.

its sad that sometimes a pet gets killed, but if they truly cared for its wellbeing they'd keep it contained to their house/yard.

ill agree with most of that and I reckon there are a lot of people who DO try and limit their pets impact on the environment but let's say one night there locking up there house and one of their cats slips out the door wether they realise it or not should they be punished by having one of their pets killed is it the cats fault? The owners? Start off with culling ferals then look at what can be done with pet cats a couple of things I can think of breeders can't sell animals that can reproduce unless to another breeder have them all licensed have hefty fines for selling unspade animals and even higher fines for cowboys with no license to breed, have cats be sold chipped as standard.
A lot of people are also getting into gps tracking for their pets could make that standard too...

 

[Bart70]

What you shouldn't do is - buy a trap, capture the cats that are coming onto your property, torturing , maiming and murdering and never eating the native fauna you might be lucky enough to have on your properly only to follow the rules and hand them over the local council's ranger to take away, he'll simply return the mongrel to the owner if he can identify the owner or they come forward and collect it., and you'll be right back where you started and have bugger all chance of ever trapping it again. Worse the owner can expect is some fines (if not chipped, not collared, not registered and that's all .... )

IMO probably best to sort the cats out permanently and STEALTHFULLY yourself. (And I don't mean take it for a long drive and dump it --- that only moves the problem somewhere else.)

It's been my experience that you simply can not reason with deadbeat cat owners who insist on letting their cats roam at will day and night. Pointless even trying.

Unless your Council is like one I had a little while ago....More than happy to take as many cats that I was able to catch and euthanise them. The only proviso was that they MUST have been caught within the confines of my property (residential block in town) - not heavily populated but not out 'in the sticks' either.

They regs on this change from State to State..... but when the NSW Companion Animal Act was passed around 2001'ish it forced Councils to have to deal with lost/abandoned/feral cats as well as dogs. Up until that time they were quite within their rights to turn you away and tell you the animal was your problem. The particular Council I was involved with was more than happy to euthanise any cat that was not easily identifiable (most aren't) almost immediately. It saved them having to house and mess around with them. Some Councils are better than others....

 

[GBWhite]

It's all fine to have opinions and suggest methods to control the moggy explosion and/or petition governments to act but the reality is (just like the proposed movement of some herpers to form a representative body) it will never happen.

I think a lot of people forget that we are part of the whole shibang that's called earth and we seem to play a very major part in how the whole thing rolls. As much as we love our natural environment here I can guarantee the same affection is displayed by inhabitants of all other countries yet the impact we have on all aspects of the planet is soooo bleeding obvious.

Anyone ever considered that it is just the nature of the human beast to move around all over the place and spread, not just animals but disease and mayhem all over the planet. Nothing seems to escape our footprint on mother earth and we seem to leave pretty deep prints. Maybe, just maybe it's the way it's all meant to be. All life on this planet comes and goes and whether it be by man's hands, devastation or climate change mother earth will survive, she in herself is a living breathing entity, it's just that as smart as we are supposed to be, humans haven't seemed to wake up to that fact yet.

We forget that as passionate as we are about our native wildlife, others are just as passionate about their pets as they are about their car, their house, their new TV and everything else they have and want to posess, so ask them (and yourself) if you or they are willing to give all these things up and go back to being hunter gatherers again to save a few reptiles, native animals or for that matter the whole natural environment. I think I could predict the answer.

Now I'm not suggesting that it is a bad thing or not commendable to want to help preserve the environment (hell I'm just as passionate about that as the next bloke but I'm also a realist) and the way I see it is that unless you've got nearly everyone on the planet expressing the same views, it's pushing the proverbial item up a hill.

Philosophical rave over.

Cheers,

George.

 

[Sean_L]

I feel your point is invalid [MENTION=20726]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] . Whether I personally find it heart warming or not, silly cats owners will never see through the cuddliness of their pets.
They can't be reasoned with because unless they see their own pet kill, they don't believe it is capable. Some people are so thick they actually think the animals that their cat brings in are completely unharmed and that their cat was gently playing with them.
Don't anyone tell me other wise, I've seen it time and time again, held countless native reptiles and bird in my hands and watched as the blood bubbled from their mouths, with the dumb, brainless faces of the owners ohhhing and ahhhing about how their cat is lovely and how it couldn't possibly have hurt the perforated animal before them.
I have no respect for anyone that owns a cat. Period. I have nothing but contempt for those that allow their pet to blatantly murder any small living thing around them.
Id gladly feed them a tasty, high velocity lead snack for their troubles. Too many worthless people in this world and I'm quickly running out of patience for any of them.

As for your second point. I shall amend my statement to this:
NO INTRODUCED CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUT FOR A STROLL SHOULD BE ALLOWED ACCESS TO NATIVE ANIMALS THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY HARM.

As for why you tried to apply this logic to anything else is beyond me. Juiced fruit is delicious as a cold beverage. Juiced cow is not as palatable. Point being, I am not making a global statement about anything. Im simply telling you 'how it is' with regards to cats and wildlife.
As for your comparisons involving people and reptiles and horses, etc, I have no idea why your brining that up either. Its not relevant and to be honest I couldn't care less about how many people are killed by horses. I dont much care for most horse people as it is. Haha. I like dog people though, don't get me wrong folks, I'm not all hate.
My statement refers to cats. As this discussion refers to cats. Any other conclusions you're drawing regarding this logic are your own and not relevant to this discussion as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong though, I too appreciate your input in any discussion you care to include yourself in. I just don't think that second point and its train of thought was worth mentioning in this case.



You make a valid philosophical point there [MENTION=39076]GBWhite[/MENTION] . People don't listen, they don't learn and you cant change their minds.
So just kill their cats, don't bother explaining it to them because they wont comprehend, and know in your own mind that you are at least doing something useful in your own area to keep a few more native animals around during your own lifetime. For the benefit of yourself, because not many other care.
Ultimately, the future will be controlled by the next bunch of brain dead voters and corrupt governments and until one country rises up and eliminates the rest of the planet there will be no right or wrong, moral or immoral, best or worst............only opinion from one idiot or another. I'm not condoning this, simply expressing how I see it.
Haha, I think Im done with this one. Sorry Nobby, just keep doing what you're doing and know that someone else out there actually has a brain and some guts also.

Death to roaming cats........etc, etc, etc.

 

[kingofnobbys]

I feel your point is invalid @Bluetongue1 . Whether I personally find it heart warming or not, silly cats owners will never see through the cuddliness of their pets.
They can't be reasoned with because unless they see their own pet kill, they don't believe it is capable. Some people are so thick they actually think the animals that their cat brings in are completely unharmed and that their cat was gently playing with them.
Don't anyone tell me other wise, I've seen it time and time again, held countless native reptiles and bird in my hands and watched as the blood bubbled from their mouths, with the dumb, brainless faces of the owners ohhhing and ahhhing about how their cat is lovely and how it couldn't possibly have hurt the perforated animal before them.
I have no respect for anyone that owns a cat. Period. I have nothing but contempt for those that allow their pet to blatantly murder any small living thing around them.
Id gladly feed them a tasty, high velocity lead snack for their troubles. Too many worthless people in this world and I'm quickly running out of patience for any of them.

As for your second point. I shall amend my statement to this:
NO INTRODUCED CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUT FOR A STROLL SHOULD BE ALLOWED ACCESS TO NATIVE ANIMALS THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY HARM.

As for why you tried to apply this logic to anything else is beyond me. Juiced fruit is delicious as a cold beverage. Juiced cow is not as palatable. Point being, I am not making a global statement about anything. Im simply telling you 'how it is' with regards to cats and wildlife.
As for your comparisons involving people and reptiles and horses, etc, I have no idea why your brining that up either. Its not relevant and to be honest I couldn't care less about how many people are killed by horses. I dont much care for most horse people as it is. Haha. I like dog people though, don't get me wrong folks, I'm not all hate.
My statement refers to cats. As this discussion refers to cats. Any other conclusions you're drawing regarding this logic are your own and not relevant to this discussion as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong though, I too appreciate your input in any discussion you care to include yourself in. I just don't think that second point and its train of thought was worth mentioning in this case.



You make a valid philosophical point there @GBWhite . People don't listen, they don't learn and you cant change their minds.
So just kill their cats, don't bother explaining it to them because they wont comprehend, and know in your own mind that you are at least doing something useful in your own area to keep a few more native animals around during your own lifetime. For the benefit of yourself, because not many other care.
Ultimately, the future will be controlled by the next bunch of brain dead voters and corrupt governments and until one country rises up and eliminates the rest of the planet there will be no right or wrong, moral or immoral, best or worst............only opinion from one idiot or another. I'm not condoning this, simply expressing how I see it.
Haha, I think Im done with this one. Sorry Nobby, just keep doing what you're doing and know that someone else out there actually has a brain and some guts also.

Death to roaming cats........etc, etc, etc.

.... well said.

Nail hit on the head.

I only wish all people who said they loved herps and other native animals were like us.... unfortunately it seems we are in a small minority based on the comments here.

 

[Skipperandrew]

I think it could be too late for a lot of native animals already. The cats and foxes are everywhere. I live in the Pilbara and sadly see more feral cats out in the bush at night than native animals these days . Walking around termite mounds you only find spiny tail monitor tails left. I have personally changed from loving cats to hating/ despising them after seeing what they do to reptiles in the wild and will quiet happily catch and kill any cat that enters my property to kill the native lizards, birds I try to attract to my garden by creating a favourable enviroment for them.

Other goverments around the world have been trying to eradicate them for many many years on Islands without any wins. The Marion Islands being one of them in the southern ocean , under S-african government. They have been shooting them for 30 odd years and still cant get rid of them. They are responsable for a number of sea bird extinctions already . The rangers doing turtle monitoring in the Ppilbara told me they shoot 300 to 500 feral cats a year doing the beach patrols at ngt. Thats only 1 person ?

- - - Updated - - -

It will take a hell of a lot more than some local shire laws telling people to keep their cats indoors at ngt to make any kind of difference to the sad situation native animals are facing .

 

[kingofnobbys]

I think it could be too late for a lot of native animals already. The cats and foxes are everywhere. I live in the Pilbara and sadly see more feral cats out in the bush at night than native animals these days . Walking around termite mounds you only find spiny tail monitor tails left. I have personally changed from loving cats to hating/ despising them after seeing what they do to reptiles in the wild and will quiet happily catch and kill any cat that enters my property to kill the native lizards, birds I try to attract to my garden by creating a favourable enviroment for them.

Other goverments around the world have been trying to eradicate them for many many years on Islands without any wins. The Marion Islands being one of them in the southern ocean , under S-african government. They have been shooting them for 30 odd years and still cant get rid of them. They are responsable for a number of sea bird extinctions already . The rangers doing turtle monitoring in the Ppilbara told me they shoot 300 to 500 feral cats a year doing the beach patrols at ngt. Thats only 1 person ?

- - - Updated - - -

It will take a hell of a lot more than some local shire laws telling people to keep their cats indoors at ngt to make any kind of difference to the sad situation native animals are facing .

Such shire / local council laws are useless unless strictly enforced and people's cats when found on the roam are confiscated and automatically destroyed (day or night) and large fines applied to the owners, a lot of the damage is done in broad daylight not only at night. I've often spotted cats in stalk mode in my garden / yard , unfortunately I can't be on guard duty 24/7 to protect the natives I've attracted / encouraged to visit my yard (I too have gone to the effort of creating a favourable environment and until recently safe sanctuary for them and have even managed to build trust with many of the natives so much so that I have been able to hand feed occasional treats to some.)

 

[Sean_L]

[MENTION=40582]Skipperandrew[/MENTION] That's the single most disappointing account I think I've heard. Ill be honest. I knew it was a top priority, but I had no idea it was THAT bad. The Pilbara is one of the most stunning reptile habitats in Australia, if not the world.

Unlike cane toads that were purposely introduced to kill the cane beetle and foxes purposely introduced for sports shooting, feral cats have come about purely through our ignorance and laziness. We kept them around to control the levels of mice and rats (that were also introduced by us) around our dwellings and they took it upon themselves to stray and then systematically devour the countryside. The tabby purring on the backrest behind you dumb asses is the embodiment of these pests. The source of the problem.

A male feral cat's range can conservatively be in the order of over 200 hectares. To put that in perspective, Lamington National Park, Australia's LARGEST remaining portion of sub-tropical rainforest is about 20,200 hectares. So theoretically, a mere 100 males could comfortably patrol the entire area, devouring anything they come across. This is regardless of the female interlopers, and ignoring the fact that ranges may overlap and their population density is usually far greater than this. As has been said, there are millions of feral cats in Australia.

If you own a cat and let it roam free you should be ashamed! I'm completely, utterly disgusted that any of you people have the nerve to defend, even for a second, what these pests are doing.
I love the Pilbara and its wildlife and would trade it for any irresponsible cat owners life. In a heartbeat.

If I see your cat, its better than dead. And you don't deserve any better.

Yeah, I'm p*ssed.

Done. For good.
I will not waste another breath on the dirtbags destroying this country's immeasurable natural wealth. You don't deserve the ground you walk on.