A bit of a rant.

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Interesting thread.
But realistically, it wasn't too long ago the world thought the earth was flat. Cigarettes were once thought to be good for you. We lived in and around aspestos.
There's break throughs in science every day but we still think 100% pumping a virus into a kid is for the 'greater good'. No.
I have a brother who was born in 2001, when the government still forced vaccinations onto children. He was developing normally and my last memory of him before he recieved his MMR vaccine is him sitting at the backdoor, looking me straight in the eye then pointing at our dog and saying 'jack! jack! jack!'. The next week we took him to get his needle and he would not stop crying! We took him home after and he just fell silent. The next week he spent laying on the couch silently, refusing to eat, constantly sleeping. I don't remember him moving an inch the entire week. When he started eating again he refused to eat certain textures, food he ate perfectly fine before.
He no longer gave any eye contact whatsoever. He no longer talked or showed interest in being social or being held. It took years and a disgusting amount of doctors and money but one day we finally got a diagnosis of high spectrum autism, ocd, adhd and developmental delays. He's 12 now, and is still nonverbal. And this is a kid who was starting to form sentences and conversation. He will never live independently, he can't cook or clean after himself, he is an absolute danger to his self and is constantly heavily medicated (to our dismay) to try and avoid some of the worst of his symptoms.
So before you assume everyone who is anti-vaccine is just being reckless with everyone's lives, put yourself in the shoes of a family wrecked by a precautionary measure for extremely rare diseases! And of course open your minds- your doctors are compensated by pharmaceutical companies for giving you these vaccines, and just because they say these vaccines are for the best NOW doesn't mean we won't find evidence against that in the future!

(Sorry.. essay)
 
I believe that people should always have the right to choose if they wish to have their children immunised or not. The reason being, there exists a slight possibility of major or even lethal reaction to an immunisation, a decision only a parent should make. If this were not the case, then I see no reason it should not be compulsory like schooling.

My own opinion is that truth and child health would seem to be the real victims of the fanatical anti-approach. Outspoken claims based on misinformation, rather than rational argument and logic, have had far too much undue influence.

The notion behind “herd immunity” need to be clarified. Those who remain unimmunized are not a direct threat in any way to those already immunised. However, they can create a reservoir of the pathogenic agent which is passed on others who are not immunised now or in the future. The large the reservoir, the effectively it can spread. It also uses up significant medical resources as infected individuals often require major treatment. This is the problem that arises when people think things like polio no longer exist so why bother with an immunisation? The realty is that they are still around and it is only immunisation that stops their visible effects from being manifested.

There are lots of potential nasties out there that the government medical authorities could immunise against. The choice of which ones get on the program, usually comes down to economics first and then humanitarian reasons. Ailments that are long term and highly debilitating and also readily passed on, such as poliomyelitis, cost a lot of money to treat. Diseases that are only temporarily debilitating but severe in their symptoms and often requiring hospitalisation, while being highly infective, such as Whooping Cough, can really disrupt hospitals. And so on.

Pixie,
Having a child that is severely ill, no matter what the cause, is distressing and stressful, hard work and hard to take. You do what you have to do to get through. My earnest wish is that all goes well for you next time around.

Blue
 
well all child care centers i have worked at have required the children to be immunised. and centerlink is now targeting low income families and single parents by not paying them family part b which is about $150 less a fortnight if they do not immunise their child and will not give them the mid year tax bonus which is about $730 if the child is not immunised.

my daughter is up to date with all her vaccines but she has had 3 bad reactions, first 2 times she got really bad lumps at the site of the vaccine and really bad swelling around it, she refused to eat and cried a lot and took about 2 weeks till the swelling went down and she started eating normally. 3rd time the nurse scared me to death, after giving her the needle she told me to watch her closely for the next 30min and come back or take her to the hospital if she started breathing fast, red spots, rash, fever ect well she started breathing and got a red spots, i took her back after about 30 min she started breathing normal but the spots stayed and took a few days to clear, she also can not tollerate milk now, she is fine with formula but if i give her cows milk she gets stomache cramps and diahoria which she did not get before that. i also notice that nurses and doctors never advise parents on what the side effects are of these vaccines, out of 6 vaccines i have only been warned once of the side effects.

as parents we all wants whats best for our kids and i believe the media and the goverment should stop bulling people into doing what they want.
 
skittles-1994 said:
He was developing normally and my last memory of him before he recieved his MMR vaccine is him sitting at the backdoor, looking me straight in the eye then pointing at our dog and saying 'jack! jack! jack!'. The next week we took him to get his needle and he would not stop crying! We took him home after and he just fell silent. The next week he spent laying on the couch silently, refusing to eat, constantly sleeping. I don't remember him moving an inch the entire week. When he started eating again he refused to eat certain textures, food he ate perfectly fine before.
He no longer gave any eye contact whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Sorry if what I'm about to say come across as rude or inconsiderate... I'm not trying to be.

The theory that autism is linked with vaccinations was debunked soon after the first "study' was done. That study was done by someone with a tiny sample size, barely conclusive results, and he was trying to get the MMR vaccine off the table because he had money invested in the single vaccines. No one in the scientific community agrees with it.

Also, autism can manifest like that. My cousin has autism, she was talking for a little while there, she was making eye contact. And then one day it stops. Vaccines are done around the same time as autism manifests itself. It might even have triggered a progression that was going to happen anyway, especially if the vaccine caused him pain. It is my opinion that he had autism already.

I'd like to share a fairy tale with you. Have you ever heard of a Changeling? Your child is happy, and healthy, and doesn't cry or is starting to form words. Your family is happy and healthy and happy days. Then one day, you accidentally do something that annoys a fairy. Or maybe you fail to leave milk or honey out for it, and it's had enough. Either way, the fairy takes your baby and replaces it with a changeling. Something that looks in every way the same as your baby. But it's not your baby, because it has stopped talking and making eye contact. And it never recovers. The fairy never gives your baby back, and you're stuck taking care of it's offspring instead.

Some people look at those stories today and think "maybe that was children getting autism, and they were confused and needed someone to blame". These stories were told long before we even imagined vaccines. Autism is a strange and unpredictable illness. Sometimes you start talking first, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you're 18 months old, sometimes you're older. Every case is different. Maybe that's just how Autism manifests, in this situation? Maybe correlation does not imply causation.
 
Ramy said:
The theory that autism is linked with vaccinations was debunked soon after the first "study' was done. That study was done by someone with a tiny sample size, barely conclusive results, and he was trying to get the MMR vaccine off the table because he had money invested in the single vaccines. No one in the scientific community agrees with it.
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Unfortunately when large amounts of money are involved the truth will be what ever the person with the bigger check book wants.... yes on a large scale vaccines may not trigger autism ect but it may trigger it in other people, once again no one cares about trying to improve the vaccines because the cost to fix it out ways the number of bad reactions. There is a rare childhood cancer that kills 1000 children a year, there is a cure but it is not ''viable'' to produce the medicine to save these children. Reality is every life has a price when it comes to business.
 
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btsmorphs said:
but it may cause it in other people.
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No, vaccines don't cause autism in some people. This has been scientifically proven with facts, not economics.

If you want to debate the ethics of drug manufacturers that's fine, but please don't link your arguments to false facts that mislead parents.
 
fishbot said:
No, vaccines don't cause autism in some people. This has been scientifically proven with facts, not economics.

If you want to debate the ethics of drug manufacturers that's fine, but please don't link your arguments to false facts that mislead parents.
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Can you please provide the study that has proven that a vaccine has NEVER trigged autism in a child...
 
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btsmorphs said:
Can you please provide the study that has proven that a vaccine has NEVER trigged autism in a child...
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Given the number of children who have been vaccinated, no one, scientist or otherwise, can say that there have been no cases of vaccinations causing autism. It's impossible to prove a negative. However, if it has ever happened, it's not happening on a large scale or it would show up in epidemiological studies. The fact remains that for most children, except those with certain medical conditions, it's much safer to vaccinate than not to.

The so-called link between autism and the MMR vaccination was incredibly tenuous from the start. Investigative journalist Brian Deer of the Sunday Times reported on the flaws in the research that began the MMR scare. The study contained only 12 children, who were not randomly chosen. According to one father, the data on his child was distorted. Additionally, the lead author, Andrew Wakefield, was receiving payments from a law firm that planned to sue vaccine manufacturers, earning the not insignificant sum of 435,643 pounds.

As happens in science, other scientists tested the claims in Wakefield's study. Not one credible study has found a link between autism and the MMR vaccine.

A hearing directly related to these matters was held and in 2010, the UK General Medical Council found Wakefield guilty of serious professional misconduct and struck him off the medical register. The Lancet, the prestigious medical journal that published the research, withdrew the original study.

Wakefield, in my opinion, perpetuated a deliberate fraud that confused the public, particularly parents, and caused a crisis of confidence in vaccines that is still playing out. The research community wasted a lot of time testing his claims, time that could have been better spent exploring the real causes of autism. He put lives at risk and caused many parents with autistic children immeasurable guilt - "If only I hadn't vaccinated my child." What else I have to say about him is not repeatable on this site.

Sources:

  1. http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and_SANCTION.pdf_32595267.pdf
  2. How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed | BMJ
  3. Andrew Wakefield - the fraud investigation
  4. Andrew Wakefield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And for a bit of fun, a version of the story told in comic form: tallguywrites: The Facts In The Case Of Dr. Andrew Wakefield
 
@Ramy I don't think it's quite fitting to bring up a fairy tale. It's no shock that children many years ago suddenly changed, I think you're overlooking the fact that we used to feed children opiates when they were ill. All it takes is an overdose or a bad reaction.
If there was some kind of late onset autism (which there isn't, having been around the disabled community for the last decade) then how exactly would it be treated. Our biggest problem was the fact that early intervention is key in autistic children which because of the doctors reluctance to diagnose him, we missed out on.

@Renenet you're really being close minded. Science makes breakthroughs every day, and scientists prove other scientists wrong constantly. They may believe that vaccinations can't cause autism now but one day they will know better but not until the major corporations and doctors benefitting from the vaccines are debunked. As I said, we used to think the world was flat.
 
skittles-1994 said:
@Renenet you're really being close minded. Science makes breakthroughs every day, and scientists prove other scientists wrong constantly. They may believe that vaccinations can't cause autism now but one day they will know better but not until the major corporations and doctors benefitting from the vaccines are debunked. As I said, we used to think the world was flat.
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Skittles, I'd be interested to know your definitions of open-minded and closed-minded.

I agree that scientists are constantly making breakthroughs and testing other scientists' results. Certainly, if a robust study demonstrates a link between vaccination and autism that is then replicated by other research groups, I am happy to say, "Yes, there is evidence that vaccination causes autism. Let's look at this." But in the 15 years since the publication of the Wakefield study - which was deeply flawed to begin with - no credible evidence has been found.

Speaking of major corporations and doctors benefitting from the vaccines, can I highlight again that Wakefield, champion of the link between the MMR vaccine and autism, was earning a substantial amount of money from a law firm that wanted to sue vaccine makers? He did not disclose this fact to the Lancet when he submitted his paper for publication. Additionally, and I quote from a Guardian article: "In June 1997, before the paper was published, he filed a patent as one of the inventors of a vaccine for the elimination of measles virus and for the treatment of inflammatory bowel disease." You're also right that it's a good idea to see who's benefitting when evaluating evidence. It certainly looks like Wakefield was benefitting to me.
 
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SniperCap said:
Hang on, are there people out there that do not approve of vaccinations? I would like them to spend a year in Central or Southern Africa and see if they still believe it when they return.
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Well the world is full of revisionist historians that are unwilling to look back into history, back into the time before vaccination technology, back when the norm was children dropping like owl pellets. The graveyards are full of them. I do understand however, that the vaccination opposition must ignore, remain ignorant of or rationalise away the insights of modern medicine and historical honesty in order to prevent their belief system from collapsing.
 
I think that the big mistake people are making is they believe the disease is not around anymore because most people in modern society are vaccinated against it and therefore we do not see it.
 
Only in relation to giving kids the flu vaccine ..The common cold killed aborigines when the english settled, the flu is lethal, making your body strong enough to fight it off is what is important especially kids ie chickenpox. You can still get the flu even when vaccinated so your only hurting yourself if you dont want strange chemical combos injected into you or your kids. Im not talking about the elderly
 
ReptilianHybrid said:
Only in relation to giving kids the flu vaccine ..The common cold killed aborigines when the english settled, the flu is lethal, making your body strong enough to fight it off is what is important especially kids ie chickenpox. You can still get the flu even when vaccinated so your only hurting yourself if you dont want strange chemical combos injected into you or your kids. Im not talking about the elderly
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I think with the flu the vaccine will protect you against one strain of the virus but there is many forms of the virus and it is one of the many others that you usually get infected by unless you are talking about when the bodies immune system is too weak to fight of the small dose of the virus that the flu injection gives you and you become sick from that.
 
Exactly different strains every year they constantly evolve if your always protected by chemicals your body wont evolve hence the depleting human genepool..
 
nature knew what it was doing i think... only the fit survived to pass on their strong genes so the future were stronger also balanced the population. Now its all human rights turned us into rabbits with constant food housing and medical treatment over populated earth. wheres humans rights when were all shoulder to shoulder in refugee camps in 30 yrs.
 
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