ALL CROSS BREEDERS!! ND ADV

[JstAnthrSmrf]

So in the next few weeks I'm picking up an Albino Caramel Jag that had just recently hatched, Farther was a Caramel Jag and the Mother was an Albino Darwin Carpet, both are beautiful snakes and so are the babies.

Two questions, one, has anyone else done this before Caramel Jag x Albino Darwin and if so does it turn out well after they are and develop some more?

Two, the baby from the parents of the Jag x Darwin I was thinking about the idea of crossing her with my male pure Murray Darling and thought that might come out really amazing, so the second question has anyone done this before if so did it work and if not what are your thoughts?

Just looking for some guidance and advice from previous experienced breeders.

 

[Fall guys]

It’s frowned upon, but people do it, who knows if ur MD is 100% MD

 

[saximus]

Caramel albino is also called Sunglow so that might help your search. There have been plenty of them produced, Jag versions too. I've always been sceptical about the cross but there are some which are much more yellow than a "pure" Darwin albino. Whether that is from the Coastal influences is up for debate IMO though.

You don't tend to see a huge number of mixes which include MD (at least I haven't). Whether that is because they don't turn out that great or because nobody is interested in it though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Yellowtail]

This topic has been covered here before but before you breed anything you need a plan as to what you are trying to achieve.
Regardless of the moral argument of breeding genetic faults like jags or crossing different Morelia species I don't see any point in mixing a predominately low sheen dark grey animal (ok some northern ones are different) with a light coloured albino. You can produce "yellow" albinos from pure Darwins that look a lot better than most sun glows I've seen with the added bonus of high fluro that you don't get from coastal blood.

 

[JstAnthrSmrf]

Caramel albino is also called Sunglow so that might help your search. There have been plenty of them produced, Jag versions too. I've always been sceptical about the cross but there are some which are much more yellow than a "pure" Darwin albino. Whether that is from the Coastal influences is up for debate IMO though.

You don't tend to see a huge number of mixes which include MD (at least I haven't). Whether that is because they don't turn out that great or because nobody is interested in it though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

^ so the babies are all Sunglow? I thought if there is 16 eggs then it's a 1/16 chance of getting a Sunglow, I assumed all the babies would just be considered Albino Caramel Jags and that the Sunglow was a separate more intense mutation.

I am only young so my years of experience aren't all that, but please do correct me if I'm wrong as I'm trying to learn as much as possible.
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This topic has been covered here before but before you breed anything you need a plan as to what you are trying to achieve.
Regardless of the moral argument of breeding genetic faults like jags or crossing different Morelia species I don't see any point in mixing a predominately low sheen dark grey animal (ok some northern ones are different) with a light coloured albino. You can produce "yellow" albinos from pure Darwins that look a lot better than most sun glows I've seen with the added bonus of high fluro that you don't get from coastal blood.

My MD has a beautiful pattern on him and he is starting to lighten up a lot compared to when I got him as a baby, I was thinking that the ACJ would clash really nicely and just pop out something unique and suprsingly decent.

I was hoping people would have done something similar already and be able to show me there results, but as you said the MD doesn't really get breed in to much as a lot of people find them just dark and boring.

 

[Shire pythons]

There are some crackin albino mds gettin around . Well 50% md anyway

 

[saximus]

^ so the babies are all Sunglow? I thought if there is 16 eggs then it's a 1/16 chance of getting a Sunglow, I assumed all the babies would just be considered Albino Caramel Jags and that the Sunglow was a separate more intense mutation.

Nope, Sunglow is the made up name for anything that is both albino and caramel. You're on the right track with regard to the 1/16 thing but that is the probability of producing a Sunglow from a specific pairing. They would only all be albino caramels if both parents were albino and at least one was a super caramel. There's no way to guarantee all babies from a pairing are jags though because the super form of jag is fatal.
In this case, I think it's actually 1/4 for Sunglows and 1/8 for Sunglow Jags but it's too early for working these things out specifically right now

 

[Yellowtail]

Am I the only one that thinks it is a bad thing to deliberately breed genetic faults that result in more animals with neurological problems and others with fatal genetics that end up in the freezer or a life of assisted feeding? If this was done with dogs there would be an outcry and dog breeders get a lot of deserved criticism for line breeding for unhealthy characteristics that "look good".

The same amount of effort with selective line breeding of healthy pythons can produce better looking results that are also healthy. The best looking albinos in Australia, and no I'm not talking about just mine, are pure bred.

 

[JstAnthrSmrf]

Am I the only one that thinks it is a bad thing to deliberately breed genetic faults that result in more animals with neurological problems and others with fatal genetics that end up in the freezer or a life of assisted feeding? If this was done with dogs there would be an outcry and dog breeders get a lot of deserved criticism for line breeding for unhealthy characteristics that "look good".

The same amount of effort with selective line breeding of healthy pythons can produce better looking results that are also healthy. The best looking albinos in Australia, and no I'm not talking about just mine, are pure bred.

I did note in the description that this is for crossbreeders as I needed some advice and guidance in regards to crossbreeding the two, look at the ball pythons they have going in America.

We have nothing like that in Australia and aren't even close to the mutations or cross breeds that they have over there, I'm not saying this is a genius idea as I'm not a 40yr old man with 20yrs snake breeding experience.

I'm young learning and asking advice on what people have done already or what people think about the topic of the two, not the morale debate of if it's ok or not. 'No offence'

I have seen one MD crossed with another snake and that was a pure Albino Darwin, the babies from the 2nd gen bred down that line came out looking absolutely spectacular with no signs a year in to their life of any nuro issues and this is already 2gens in not including the parents.

But that's it, I can't find anything else on them and people aren't even willing to try or open the idea of it, so all though I do appreciate your concerns about crossbreeding.

Please try to keep the comments to something a bit more constructive and helpful on the subject.

 

[saximus]

I have seen one MD crossed with another snake and that was a pure Albino Darwin, the babies from the 2nd gen bred down that line came out looking absolutely spectacular with no signs a year in to their life of any nuro issues and this is already 2gens in not including the parents.

That's because neuro comes from the jag gene, not from cross breeding.

I'd say Yellowtail's first comment would likely be the largest reason for them not being crossed in with many morphs. "Drab" grey and black aren't all that exciting if you're the kind of breeder who is trying to create bright shiny new things. The maroon/reds you can get with them are nice but you get the same effect (usually even moreso) by crossing with bredli instead.

 

[Yellowtail]

I

I did note in the description that this is for crossbreeders as I needed some advice and guidance in regards to crossbreeding the two, look at the ball pythons they have going in America.

We have nothing like that in Australia and aren't even close to the mutations or cross breeds that they have over there, I'm not saying this is a genius idea as I'm not a 40yr old man with 20yrs snake breeding experience.

I'm young learning and asking advice on what people have done already or what people think about the topic of the two, not the morale debate of if it's ok or not. 'No offence'

I have seen one MD crossed with another snake and that was a pure Albino Darwin, the babies from the 2nd gen bred down that line came out looking absolutely spectacular with no signs a year in to their life of any nuro issues and this is already 2gens in not including the parents.

But that's it, I can't find anything else on them and people aren't even willing to try or open the idea of it, so all though I do appreciate your concerns about crossbreeding.

Please try to keep the comments to something a bit more constructive and helpful on the subject.

I am sorry if I am not being constructive but the initial thread did refer to a "Albino caramel Jag" so I think my comments about breeding genetic faults (Jag) are relevant. Cross breeding is a different matter and my query there was related to the logic of breeding a light coloured animal with a dark dull one as Saximus confirmed.

My other comment was I am yet to see a "Sunglow" that has superior yellow fluro to the best line bred albino Darwins but happy to be impressed if anyone has one.

 

[Neil j]

It’s sounds to me like the pairing would have to have been 100% het albino caramel jag x alb Darwin to produce a sunglow jag. Meaning their makeup would be 75% Darwin. These are designer snakes, patients will be required feeding and growing these types of cross imo. Crossing one to a Murray Darwin will make it a well and truely mixed carpet python 100% hets worth about 150 and up if your lucky.
In this time you could invest in more morphs. And come up with better ideas.

 

[Billyblackdragon]

Hey guys I’m new to this and just wanted a input I have a jungle jag The jag is a very high percentage jungle, probably the highest available in Australia at 97% jungle from Krauss line Palmerston locality. and I have a albino The albino has a little bit of coastal in her and probably a sunglow. Dad was a pure Darwin albino and mum was a caramel jag het albino (75% Darwin). if I breed these two but would I be expecting out of the clutch ?

 

[Fall guys]

 

[Southernserpent]

You may get some good looking animals from that clutch. But as yellowtail has said when breeding morphs and especially recessive genes you should have an end goal in mind. The bright clean yellow in that jag may create some nice looking albinos but that is a long term project with lots of animals produced to get to that point. If your just breeding for the interest of it I would stick to keeping the jungle as pure as possible and trying to enhance the colours of it