Animal Cruelty in China

[slim6y]

So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....

Where do you draw the line?

Let's say it was toads in a bag? Would you complain then? Would you say it's cruel? Would you stop smashing them with golf clubs or alternatively would you start smashing turtles with golf clubs?

Ok... That's not that extreme is it? Really? I know of at least a dozen on APS who'd happily smash toads with a golf club....

I'm not here getting into that argument - I'm here to see where you stand on animal cruelty...

So... Not a toad or tortoise or a turtle in a bag... But a guppie...? Is that cruel?

We take them home in bags (normally to put them in a bigger tank) but what say they were in a herbal tea swimming in a bag? Cruel?

Ok... Why not move to an extreme - a cockroach - what if I sold a cockroach in a bag....? Oh, I'm not talking your fancy smancy burrowing hissing madagascans... I'm talking your dirty, yucky, disease ridden German Roach... The ones festering under your fridge right now...

If some Chineseman was selling those in a bag - would you consider it cruel?

Let's take a step back and look at the odds...

If you put a cute widdle tortoise in a bag it's cruel...

If you put an ugly toad in a bag probably about half of you had to think whether it was cruel or not...

If you put a disgusting cockroach in the bag you've all of a sudden come up with double standards... (most cases I'd say).

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?

 

[grannieannie]

Personally I think giving any living thing a lingering death is cruel. I've seen weekend fishermen on jetties put their catch in a bucket and the poor fish flaps around till it eventually dies...that to me is cruelty. I most certainly don't condone hitting toads with golf sticks, unless the death is instant .... if something is to be killed, then do it as quickly as possible, no matter what it is, how large or small, but make it quick. I have a friend who has a very sick 14yr old dog, I believe he's putting that dog through agony by continually experimenting with drugs etc just to keep it alive for a few more weeks. I think he's being cruel and selfish.

 

[Retic]

Sorry, i tried to make it as obvious as i could

You're joking right ???? ..........

 

[Stompsy]

I have a friend who has a very sick 14yr old dog, I believe he's putting that dog through agony by continually experimenting with drugs etc just to keep it alive for a few more weeks. I think he's being cruel and selfish.

Completely agree. Someone I know kept their blind and deaf dog alive until one day she collapsed on the floor unable to get up. We then rushed her to the vet and had her put down. Poor thing couldn't have had much quality of life n her last few years. And now their other dog is ridden with arthritis and blind and they keep saying he's fine when clearly all he does is sit in an air conditioned room 24/7 sleeping.

That's another discussion altogether though.

Yes, I'd still find it cruel to have a cockroach in a small bag, alive, as a souvenir. As Annie stated, if something must be killed do it quickly. Don't make and living being suffer for your own benefit.




Erbitting the oarth.

 

[Specks]

My signature? Hmm.



I thought those electric rods were now illegal?

illegal ?
They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
God knows what we would do without it
a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000

 

[grannieannie]

illegal ?
They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
God knows what we would do without it
a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000

Interesting......

 

[longqi]

I used to visit China every year for at least 2 or 3 months each time

Yes there is loads of what we consider animal cruelty there
Most of this cruelty is easily found in the cities
Yes there are loads of people just like us who love animals too
Most of the animal lovers are also in the cities

Very similar things can be found throughout Central and South America Africa Asia and Eastern Europe

We are very fortunate to have been raised in countries where organisations like RSPCA exist and helped teach us from a young age that cruelty to any animals is wrong
Those countries have never had the benefit of that

Is it wrong??
In our eyes it is very wrong but only education will help stop this

 

[Stompsy]

illegal ?
They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
God knows what we would do without it
a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000

Ahh, sorry! I was actually thinking of the bolt guns.


Erbitting the oarth.

 

[JUNGLE-JAK]

Live dogs dragged behind boats as shark bait...all sorts of horrible, horrible things happen to animals in these dreadful countries....thankfully there are people in the world who try and help. Has anyone watched the show about Luke Gamble the pommie vet who goes all over the world trying to teach people how to take care of their animals and he tries to rescue animals too.....so much to be done. But then there are people who say....what about the abused and starving peoples of the world, shouldn't they come before animals......sadly the world will never be perfect, and I seriously doubt any of these problems will be completely solved....it's a sad world we live in. :cry:

he has the same last name as me, and any way there is so many places like that its not funny, and i agree this is a sad world

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....

Where do you draw the line?

Let's say it was toads in a bag? Would you complain then? Would you say it's cruel? Would you stop smashing them with golf clubs or alternatively would you start smashing turtles with golf clubs?

Ok... That's not that extreme is it? Really? I know of at least a dozen on APS who'd happily smash toads with a golf club....

I'm not here getting into that argument - I'm here to see where you stand on animal cruelty...

So... Not a toad or tortoise or a turtle in a bag... But a guppie...? Is that cruel?

We take them home in bags (normally to put them in a bigger tank) but what say they were in a herbal tea swimming in a bag? Cruel?

Ok... Why not move to an extreme - a cockroach - what if I sold a cockroach in a bag....? Oh, I'm not talking your fancy smancy burrowing hissing madagascans... I'm talking your dirty, yucky, disease ridden German Roach... The ones festering under your fridge right now...

If some Chineseman was selling those in a bag - would you consider it cruel?

Let's take a step back and look at the odds...

If you put a cute widdle tortoise in a bag it's cruel...

If you put an ugly toad in a bag probably about half of you had to think whether it was cruel or not...

If you put a disgusting cockroach in the bag you've all of a sudden come up with double standards... (most cases I'd say).

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?

slimy you given examples of other animals being stuffed into sealed air-tight bags and you've asked if our standards are the same for every animal...

Well perhaps I will show a better excample of what else they are consealing in these little bags with no air:

View attachment 243047

Lizards, yes reptiles (you know, what this site represents)!!!... And they get done as key-rings and in different colours. The Chinese wear them around on their necks, on their keys, attached to their bags, and they do it so proudly... Is that a better example for you slimy?

And if you go to their website: Live Turtles, Fish, Salamanders Sealed In Plastic Bags to Make Living Key Chains in China | Candace Calloway Whiting - seattlepi.com You'll also see fish in the bags... has my standards changed, or do I think it's any less cruel... NO IT HASN'T! Any animal, no matter how small or insignificant you may feel it is, I will never accept it and will fight it all the way. IMO... animals have got more right to live then what we do!

 

[longqi]

I just opened an old diary

Shanghai Sept 8th 87

Only a few ks from my hotel is a garden
Absolutely wonderful place before the crowds infect it
so I sneak over there before dawn and wander inside with the workers long before the gates are open
Just before the side gate with the dragons there is a small group
A well dressed man holds the leash to an alert and shiny dog
Smaller than a shepard but similar in build
Such peace inside these walls
Seclusion is not easy to find in this huge city but in the corners you can be anywhere you would ever want to be
Dawn sneaks up on the night here
Just a change in the grey for most Shangai people have never really seen a dawn
where colours and light explode to offer something different every day
Time wanders through as I wander around there
Leaving as the crowds arrive
Outside the side gate
with the dragons
the well dressed man rolls a piece of meat into the fresh skin and puts it in his bag
Two alleys cats fight over the scraps and pools of congealing blood
Perhaps they should notice
they too are looking alert and shiny

 

[PythonLegs]

So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....

Where do you draw the line?

Let's say it was toads in a bag? Would you complain then? Would you say it's cruel? Would you stop smashing them with golf clubs or alternatively would you start smashing turtles with golf clubs?

Ok... That's not that extreme is it? Really? I know of at least a dozen on APS who'd happily smash toads with a golf club....

I'm not here getting into that argument - I'm here to see where you stand on animal cruelty...

So... Not a toad or tortoise or a turtle in a bag... But a guppie...? Is that cruel?

We take them home in bags (normally to put them in a bigger tank) but what say they were in a herbal tea swimming in a bag? Cruel?

Ok... Why not move to an extreme - a cockroach - what if I sold a cockroach in a bag....? Oh, I'm not talking your fancy smancy burrowing hissing madagascans... I'm talking your dirty, yucky, disease ridden German Roach... The ones festering under your fridge right now...

If some Chineseman was selling those in a bag - would you consider it cruel?

Let's take a step back and look at the odds...

If you put a cute widdle tortoise in a bag it's cruel...

If you put an ugly toad in a bag probably about half of you had to think whether it was cruel or not...

If you put a disgusting cockroach in the bag you've all of a sudden come up with double standards... (most cases I'd say).

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?

Unlike turtles, lizards, cockroaches..or anything else for sale in 'slow death' bags in china, cane toads are a harmful, invasive species whose very existence is damaging to our eco system. I also doubt anybody pops a cane toad into a bag of herbal oil and watches it starve to death for a few weeks.

Maybe you guys should read Genesis 1:26 just to remind yourselves.

Maybe You should read Pythonlegs 69:69, and go take your medication.

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

If we were to stick a small child into a small bag full of coloured herbal water with just enough air to last for a month or two, until they died the most slow and painful death possible by suffocation, what do you think would happen?... There would be public out-rage, front page headings, world-wide media, there would be a man hunt put out on your head.

What if it was your child, your mum, sister or friend, what would you do? You would scream murder, you would have the person that did that to your loved one trialed, hung, put away for life never to see the day of light again... wouldn't you?

Who have these animals got to scream out for them? Were are their parents, sisters, brothers, family or friends screaming out for their safe release back home to were they belong? There is no one, they can't be heard, they don't speak english and unfortunately they are ruled by humans and in some cases rely on us for their protection and well-being...

So many animals in this world die a slow, painful and silent death and I can't understand for the life of me why human beings don't hear them or give them the same respect they would for their own loved ones!

 

[HerperBaz]

For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..

How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.

At least with the asians they eat all animals and dont contradict their own views on cruelty.

PIG HEADED WESTERN SOCIETY WILL BE THE DEATH OF HUMANITY

 

[dihsmaj]

Indeed the very thought of things can be upsetting, that's why I didn't try to find out about it...and sounds like I was right not to...




You're joking right ???? ..........

An observation I've made...... someone mentioned the Bible and God creating man to be master over animals...or something like that. Next thing I see is someone putting the person down for what they believe...yet the person who believes does not put the non believer down. I don't think it's fair, that a either person has the right to put down the other, we are all entitled to believe what we like about life without being put down by anyone else.

I believe you're referring to me? I was actually being serious, I didn't think anyone totally believed Genesis.

So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....

Where do you draw the line?

Let's say it was toads in a bag? Would you complain then? Would you say it's cruel? Would you stop smashing them with golf clubs or alternatively would you start smashing turtles with golf clubs?

Ok... That's not that extreme is it? Really? I know of at least a dozen on APS who'd happily smash toads with a golf club....

I'm not here getting into that argument - I'm here to see where you stand on animal cruelty...

So... Not a toad or tortoise or a turtle in a bag... But a guppie...? Is that cruel?

We take them home in bags (normally to put them in a bigger tank) but what say they were in a herbal tea swimming in a bag? Cruel?

Ok... Why not move to an extreme - a cockroach - what if I sold a cockroach in a bag....? Oh, I'm not talking your fancy smancy burrowing hissing madagascans... I'm talking your dirty, yucky, disease ridden German Roach... The ones festering under your fridge right now...

If some Chineseman was selling those in a bag - would you consider it cruel?

Let's take a step back and look at the odds...

If you put a cute widdle tortoise in a bag it's cruel...

If you put an ugly toad in a bag probably about half of you had to think whether it was cruel or not...

If you put a disgusting cockroach in the bag you've all of a sudden come up with double standards... (most cases I'd say).

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?

insects don't feel pain.

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

insects don't feel pain.

And your an insect are you? When was the last time you asked an insect if it felt pain or not?

 

[dihsmaj]

I'm not gonna argue about this

 

[slim6y]

Unlike turtles, lizards, cockroaches..or anything else for sale in 'slow death' bags in china, cane toads are a harmful, invasive species whose very existence is damaging to our eco system. I also doubt anybody pops a cane toad into a bag of herbal oil and watches it starve to death for a few weeks.

It wouldn't matter if the tortoises were an invasive, harmful species - the point I was making was, quite often, as humans, we give the cute widdle tortoise the benefit above the ugly toad... Or the roach...

My point wasn't about the invasiveness, the harmfulness or even the amount of damage these animals do. Possums are really cute (those big eyes, bushy tails, they make my heart go all gooey) - but I hate them in NZ! They're destructive, invasive pests... But I wouldn't be putting them in a bag and selling them. Nor smashing them with golf clubs. A bullet is usually all it takes, but we don't let them suffer.

The point is clear... Some people have double standards - and I've brought this up in a number of topics, especially cane toad ones. Despite the toad being incredibly ugly and dangerously toxic, doesn't give people the right to torture it....

What would annoy me about having this key chain with a turtle (or tortoise or what ever it is) attached - I'm forever losing my keys, how much harder will they be to find if they keep walking away?

 

[Australis]

An observation I've made...... someone mentioned the Bible and God creating man to be master over animals...or something like that. Next thing I see is someone putting the person down for what they believe...yet the person who believes does not put the non believer down. I don't think it's fair, that a either person has the right to put down the other, we are all entitled to believe what we like about life without being put down by anyone else.

And then by the same token the people wanting animals in keyrings are entitled believe its fine with out being put down for it by anyone right ?

I disagree, i think everyone's beliefs should be open to challenge.

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?

Exactly..

Lizards, yes reptiles (you know, what this site represents)!!!...

Those lizards look a lot like amphibians...:lol:

 

[longqi]

For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..

How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.

At least with the asians they eat all animals and dont contradict their own views on cruelty.

PIG HEADED WESTERN SOCIETY WILL BE THE DEATH OF HUMANITY

while it is ok to eat all animals it is not ok to either kill them slowly or with cruelty
western society does have a lot to answer for but so does every other society on earth