Aussie reptiles... YOU are building a solid future!

[rockman]

DAMN , that was hard to read ...............after a 6pack , LOL
Cheers

Hey Lockie,very sorry to go so far off topic on your thread but when people carry on like spoilt little kiddies sometimes things need to be pointed out!I'll get back on topic and hope your thread continues to be a decent one as it has so far without the odd nip here and there?????

Yeah Mr Webb you got me thinking alright but not what you think i'm thinking:lol:

As i said you must have a secret bit of admiration for him seeing you're using one of his animals as your avatar,now was i correct in saying that or not?Further more you say it's not directly from indicus but is from his line so it's one of his animals in your avatar correct?In fact it's still an animal that belongs to him and he bred from her this season producing a screaming clutch of all mad striped animals.I did point out to him some time ago now that you were using a pic he'd taken as your avatar and that it was a copyright breach however being the decent bloke he is didn't really mind at all but now that you bring up it's not directly from him but is from his line there's a few things i think should be pointed out to show how full of it you really are!As i said that pic is from the pic i've attached and as mentioned by Jason2 is identical to a pic he had posted to him last season apart from the fact that it's identical which it isn't only due to a simple bit of photoshopping by yourself and people will see where you have removed the small thin black line going from the mouth of the skull n crossbones to the eye on the left as well as taking a good close look quite a few things line up exactly the same in your pic and the one attached below where the top right crossbone meets the white on the pattern and the same on the top left part of the let crossbone looking front on.Also the nose lines up exactly the same and one other thing you changed is the mouth under the eyes which has had it's shape rounded a touch but the eyes are exactly the same.I could go on but people just need to checkout the pic below and they'll easily see for themselves.That pic is also from last year and is a much older animal than any he's sold.

Myself i can always recognise animals i'vbe seen before mainly due to their head pattern which in this case you have not only copied the pic but altered it which many others would take great offence to.Do you think he doesn't know what animals are his or not especially seeing this one is from a particular clutch he's been rearing for some time now and only just bred from her this season.He has a photographic record of every animal he's produced and none have that same head pattern even if changed by someone trying to fool people but is only fooling themselves.I've seen that very animal since he practically first got it right to when he bred it this season yet you claim it's not directly from him but is from his line which like i told you in the first place i recognised myself and not just now but sometime ago.It may not be such a big deal and really isn't to indicus nor is it to me but you carrying on as if you know all about it is a joke and basically more lies from yourself!

Oh,It's all good mate:lol:If you knew you'd know he has no kids so you're on the wrong track there too!In fact i also received my BW's in socks which were as he's mentioned brand new kiddies socks that happen to make great bags to put hatchlings in when they get sold but i can assure you this,he never sold that snake in your avatar to anyone and most definitely not to you but is still very much his so keep trying to believe yourself and making out the animal is a different one than the one below which others will easily work out themselves from taking a good look at the pic,mainly the head pattern and where things line up such as the crossbones and nose with a few things touched up like the small thin black line going to the left eye from the mouth part of the face which i like to call it on the skull and crossbones pattern....you're just fooling yourself and may have fooled others bu now you've come unstuck and i'm -PMSLROTF:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Now no death threats please this is meant to be a civil forum without that sort of childishness but someone had to point it out after you put your own foot in it:lol: I forgot to mention it is the very same snake in indicus's avatar as well and he has plenty more pics and doesn't need to bullcrap on about these sorts of things which was why he didn't mention a thing about it ages ago as it didn't bother him but i'm sure it does now!!

Now take a good look at the pic below and draw your own conclusions and may the thread continue as it was,some very valid points mentioned and no need to name anyone i think we're all dong our little or big bit in one way or another wether recuing snakes off the road or taking great photos of them without manipulating them:lol:etc etc.

Cheers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[urodacus_au]

:lol: those beasts do look mighty similar....so whos full of manure? One of you folk are going to look stupid, and i bet i can guess who.....

 

[BROWNS]

Took ages to write too but had to be done and i couldn't put it any shorter,ah well you get that huh?:lol3 Billys later it was taking much longer:lol::

 

[caustichumor]

Waiting for a rebuttal... lol

 

[Miss B]

Blackghost, you actually want people to believe that the snake in your avatar is not the snake in the pic BROWNS posted? :lol:

Here's a bit of fiddling I just did with Photoshop.

Pic 1: The snake from the photo that BROWNS posted, cropped down.
Pic 2: Same pic after a bit of editing ... note that I've removed the green grass and the face pattern has changed slightly.
Pic 3: The edited pic, downsized to avatar dimensions.
Pic 4: Blackghost's avatar.

Who do you think you're kidding? LOL.

 

[BROWNS]

Well done MissB i tried to do the same but am hopeless with photoshop but knew people would see it a mile away....i think he's just been skoonted:lol:

 

[Australis]

This thread has sure taken a intresting turn.............

Might be time for a new username BlackGhost LOL
Better luck next time eh.

 

[eladidare]

thats all well and good that we are breeding FREAKS worth $$$$$$$$$$

but what about our threatened and endangered species and the destruction of habitat??

what are we doing towards that? isnt it more important than breeding some wack looking
mantle piece ornament???

i hope we as reptile enthusiasts can do something,
then we can really be proud of herpetology

SPOT ON!

 

[expansa1]

indicus, I believe encouraging other people to own Reptiles has quite the oppisite effect. More Reptile owners means more unlicenced owners with wild caught pets. I fail to see how Captive bred Snakes are benefiting our endangered species in any way, shape or form.

It was only the other day that I went to purchase a frog and the Hoxton Park owner informed me that most of his animals are wild caught and that he is unlicenced. He had everything from Broadheaded Sandswimmers to Marsh Frogs to Marble Geckos.
The odds are that one of his mates owned some Reptiles and he has decided to get some for himself.

You breed an uncommon species of snake. So what? They cant be released to the wild so theres absolutely no benefit to Australia other then a few extra dollars in your pocket each year whilst some John or Jane Doe have a new pet.

Land Care? Green Peace? That's like saying if you want to see Reptiles go to a Zoo! You dont need to be a member of any organisation in order to do your part.

The way conservation in Australia is heading I would say that as authorities fight their way over the red tape and bureaucratic B.S that seems to run Government organisations, soon endangered species will be able to be released back into the wild as we have done in the past and are doing. We as private breeders have set a precedence so now it's up to the rest of Australia to follow suit.

It isn't impossible guys and girls, it can be done! Here in QLD we thought that there would be no chance of being able to do this but have eventually convinced authorities how important the gene pool of reptiles kept by amateur herpetologists such as yourselves is.

Also, and most importantly, conservation is also about education. Every time one of your neighbours kids or one of your relatives comes to your place to see your collection, believe it or not you are contributing to conservation in Australia in a huge way. You are helping to change the old and ignorant mindset associated with reptiles and especially pythons and snakes!

So we have our reptile collection, take them to schools, even have bus loads of children from schools visit us to see our breeding setup for endangered turtles which helps to set the wheels in motion with the younger generation and sometimes the older ones.

Below is a photo of myself presenting Travis the MRTand trying to convince the Minister for the Environment - Peter Garrett of the importance of the Mary River turtle as a Matter of National Environmental Significance (M.N.E.S) under the EPBC act and that the whole ecosytem is needed to be protected for this species to continue into the future, as well as other endangered and vulnerable species like the Mary River Cod and Mary River Lungfish. We are currently trying to have some very important habitat declared vulnerable under the EPBC act so that it will be protected and not destroyed.
Cheers,
Craig
AFTCRA Inc.

A perfect example of captive animals and breeding is in another thread posted by Australis as seen below.
"A rare native fish discovered swimming in an abandoned Northern Territory uranium mine is close to being bred in captivity.

The barraway's carp gudgeon was discovered in the abandoned Sleisbeck mine pit in Kakadu National Park.

It is hoped captive breeding of the fish could help protect the species and provide income for traditional owners.

Ornamental fish breeder Dave Wilson says he's already received enquires from overseas collectors who are keen to aquire the small rare native fish.

"It's reasonably attractive and could be used as an aquarium subject. So we are interested in, in conjunction with the local people there
breeding the fish and offering it to the aquarium trade to use it. From that, we will give some back to the local people to manage their land with a percentage of the sales."

The fish is native to Kakadu National Park, and the NT Museum's Dr Helen Larson believes aqaurium sales could sure up the species' future.

"In order to protect things with a restricted distributions like this, it's very good to have captive populations so that if anything does happen in the future
- an accident, climate change, development, anything - and the habitat is damaged, we can put back specimens that have been captive bred."
But Mr Wilson warns that the fish are very difficult to successfully breed in captivity.

"The eggs will hatch after a couple of days and they get these microscopic little larvae that that haven't got very big mouths and need very small foods.
Quite a lot of the larvae need a particular type of movement to excite them into actually eating. If that's missing, you are not successful as they just don't eat."

 

[Jason2]

Geeeeezzzzzzzzzz Browns you'll need a holiday after posting your LONG speel. it was a toss up between a rum or a coffee to finish reading it....well done.....looks like I was right about the pic.

Expansa.....good pic...nice to know someone is talking to to the heads, not all that sure if it will do any good but one has to keep in mind the old Scottish tale about the spider

 

[expansa1]

Geeeeezzzzzzzzzz Browns you'll need a holiday after posting your LONG speel. it was a toss up between a rum or a coffee to finish reading it....well done.....looks like I was right about the pic.

Expansa.....good pic...nice to know someone is talking to to the heads, not all that sure if it will do any good but one has to keep in mind the old Scottish tale about the spider

Thanks Jason2, we'll keep trying to convince whoever we can to get the job done.
One question though, what is the old Scottish tale about the spider?

 

[Eylandt]

expansa1, I do understand the points you are making as education is important but such education has always been around. Furthermore I dont believe a lack of education is a problem.

About 60% of the people of whom I have shwon my snake to now want one themselves. The problem is that they dont want to pay for one so as it stands one friend has asked me if I want to go "hunting" with him, another friend has already collected some wild Frogs and a third is looking to buy one off-Licence.
Despite all my efforts to convince them otherwise they are going ahead and doing it. This does not assist in the conservation at all!

You said "endangered species will be able to be released back into the wild as we have done in the past and are doing". By this do you mean release captive bred snakes back into the wild? If so I really must question the rehabilatation techniques beings used. With feeding of live animals being illegalised how do you teach a snake to hunt for live food when live food is the one thing they cant have?

Have a look at other species that re-introduction has flawed on. Keiko died and even the Mexican Gray Wolf intorduction was a flop with many of the Re-introduced Wolves dieing.

According to Benjamin Beck,​

[FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana]"We can find evidence that only 16 (11 percent) of the 145 reintroduction projects contributed to the establishment of a self-sustaining wild population. These sixteen projects reintroduced captive-born wood bison, plains bison, Arabian oryx, Alpine ibex, bald eagle, Harris’ hawk, peregrine falcon, Aleutian goose, bean goose, lesser white-fronted goose, wood duck, masked bobwhite quail, Galapagos iguana, pine snake, and Galapagos tortoise." [/FONT]
[FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana] ​

[/FONT]

Many of these examples are translocations into previously occupied or vacant habitat, and were not pivotal to the survival of the species.​

While Beck also outlines how reintroduction efforts can be valuable in other ways, he acknowledges that [FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana]"at this point…. there is not overwhelming evidence that reintroduction is successful."
[/FONT]

 

[expansa1]

expansa1, I do understand the points you are making as education is important but such education has always been around. Furthermore I dont believe a lack of education is a problem.

About 60% of the people of whom I have shwon my snake to now want one themselves. The problem is that they dont want to pay for one so as it stands one friend has asked me if I want to go "hunting" with him, another friend has already collected some wild Frogs and a third is looking to buy one off-Licence.
Despite all my efforts to convince them otherwise they are going ahead and doing it. This does not assist in the conservation at all!

You said "endangered species will be able to be released back into the wild as we have done in the past and are doing". By this do you mean release captive bred snakes back into the wild? If so I really must question the rehabilatation techniques beings used. With feeding of live animals being illegalised how do you teach a snake to hunt for live food when live food is the one thing they cant have?

Have a look at other species that re-introduction has flawed on. Keiko died and even the Mexican Gray Wolf intorduction was a flop with many of the Re-introduced Wolves dieing.

According to Benjamin Beck,​

[FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana]"We can find evidence that only 16 (11 percent) of the 145 reintroduction projects contributed to the establishment of a self-sustaining wild population. These sixteen projects reintroduced captive-born wood bison, plains bison, Arabian oryx, Alpine ibex, bald eagle, Harris’ hawk, peregrine falcon, Aleutian goose, bean goose, lesser white-fronted goose, wood duck, masked bobwhite quail, Galapagos iguana, pine snake, and Galapagos tortoise." [/FONT]
[FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana] ​

[/FONT]

Many of these examples are translocations into previously occupied or vacant habitat, and were not pivotal to the survival of the species.​

While Beck also outlines how reintroduction efforts can be valuable in other ways, he acknowledges that [FONT=KOLFMK+Verdana,Verdana]"at this point…. there is not overwhelming evidence that reintroduction is successful."
[/FONT]

G'day Eylandt, with the releases I am not talking about rehabilitated animals. I am talking about the release of hatchlings of an endangered species back into the wild. Snakes and pythons etc should be released soon after hatching and not fed in captivity. This form of conservation will only work if a holistic approach is adopted and the ecosystem that they are released into is protected! I agree that long-term captive animals most often do not re-adapt to life back in the wild. That is why we are not allowed (and I totally agree) to release our turtles that came from the pet industry many years ago.

 

[blackghost]

Hey Lockie,very sorry to go so far off topic on your thread but when people carry on like spoilt little kiddies sometimes things need to be pointed out!I'll get back on topic and hope your thread continues to be a decent one as it has so far without the odd nip here and there?????

Yeah Mr Webb you got me thinking alright but not what you think i'm thinking:lol:
!

Who the hell is mr webb???? Now I wish I had of corrected that when indicus mentioned it, but
I just ignored it, as my issue with indicus was something completely different to what ever your
going on about. You mr/s browns have got me mixed up with someone else big time. Besides
that, you go on with apologising to Lockie for going off the track, but you continue to do so???

If you or anyone has got a problem with me or my avatar that yes, does come from Tremain's
line and that is the original pic that I took my damn self and has not been altered in anyway (I
wouldn't know how to use any altering computer crap if my life depended on it), it would really
be appreciated if you had the half decency to leave it off someone else's thread and pm me!

Once again...sorry Lockie. Some people I swear do not have lives, and it's people like this mr
browns that obviously doesn't have a life him/herself and makes APS look really bad!!!!

 

[caustichumor]

You started the offshoot that this thread took Blackghost.... Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...