Boa Constrictor in Geelong

[treeofgreen]

According to Australian law; No, no they don't.

I would think the biggest impact they would have would be habitat displacement, competition of food source and and adverse impact on eco-chains(ability to take bigger prey key to local biocycles ect.)

Law does not always mean right or well thought.

I have been wondering about the actual implications for awhile now, my views have changed abit, but I am currently sitting on "very little impact"

0.5% of Aus is Rainforest (assuming they are all suitable for boas)
We have large pythons here anyway.
If they are even able to compete, they would have to compete with our locals who been evolving here for xxxxx years in their own habitat. Same food, same predators while having to adapt to their new home.

I just don't see boas having anything "special" to out do our natives. Mind you I don't know how the live birthing aspect would change the game? Similar time from ovulation to hatchlings, but unsure if external is less of an advantage or not. Our native's current system seems to be doing the job though.

Always open to more input!

 

[junglepython2]

yes the bio security argument of bring in new disease is all a bunch of bs because most exotics available are from animals that have been here for multiple generations...

Clearly you know very little about GTPs but legalising them hasn't open a huge flood gate of smuggled animals, no feral populations of exotic GTPs? no new diseases introduced? yes some exotics could have devastating effects ie green iguanas but some would pose very little if any risk varanus prasinus for example.

1. Plenty of GTPs were smuggled in a number of years ago, hence all the new locales that became available and the massive price drop in GTPs we saw.
2. Of course they haven't established feral populations there is only limited suitable habitat available in Australia most of which is already occupied by native GTPs.
3. No one even knows what diseases are here let alone which ones have come in from smuggled animals.

And I agree that some exotic species would pose no threat what soever if adequately quarantined however some have effects that are not initially realized or easy to predict. In which case it is far easier to have the blanket ban we currently do.

 

[Jacknife]

yes the bio security argument of bring in new disease is all a bunch of bs because most exotics available are from animals that have been here for multiple generations...

Clearly you know very little about GTPs but legalising them hasn't open a huge flood gate of smuggled animals, no feral populations of exotic GTPs? no new diseases introduced? yes some exotics could have devastating effects ie green iguanas but some would pose very little if any risk varanus prasinus for example.

Bio-security isn't just prevention of diseases - of which I never even made mention.
Clearly you know very little about law. Once something is legalized it is no longer smuggled, it is imported. And GTP's are a terrible example as they have been here since forever, muddled in with Aus types. To most people - even snake enthusiasts, they'd struggle to at a glance tell the difference between GTP's from anywhere as adults. (as I stated).

And my point would be if they were bringing in things in numbers such as green iguanas, nile monitors ect. then we would have an ecological disaster on our hands much like the Florida Everglades.

Just look at these lists of species currently wreaking havoc and irreversible destruction to the Southern US.
Nonnative Species
It's a serious problem.
Would you want Australia to EVER be anywhere near this bad? I don't. And we have to take a hardline stance now, while there isn't a problem so we never do.
Australia and New Zealand have the toughest quarantine laws in the world apart from The Galapagos, and it's to protect our endemic native wildlife from the outside worlds hazards, this includes its animals - of all kinds.
I love how unique our nation is and have absolutely zero desire to see it populated by the animals of others.

 

[Retic]

Except dogs, cats, sheep, cattle, horses, goats, Llamas, Alpacas, Ostriches, rats, mice, Guinea Pigs, rabbits, ferrets, camels, donkeys, numerous exotic birds and fish and no doubt lots more I have forgotten. The toughest quarantine laws in the world havent stopped the influx of exotic reptiles over the years. I have no interest one way or the other as far as legalising exotics BUT people need to look at what is out there. The species I listed are just the legal ones. It's amazing that the most destructive invasive species in the world (next to man), the cat, is virtually uncontrolled. I have lost count of how many times someone has told me that their cat doesnt kill native animals, maybe the odd mouse but nothing native or that their cat has a bell around it's neck so everything can hear it coming. I cant take a ban on exotic reptiles seriously while an animal 1000 times more destructive is allowed to roam free virtually everywhere.

 

[beastcreature]

Bio-security isn't just prevention of diseases - of which I never even made mention.
Clearly you know very little about law. Once something is legalized it is no longer smuggled, it is imported. And GTP's are a terrible example as they have been here since forever, muddled in with Aus types. To most people - even snake enthusiasts, they'd struggle to at a glance tell the difference between GTP's from anywhere as adults. (as I stated).

And my point would be if they were bringing in things in numbers such as green iguanas, nile monitors ect. then we would have an ecological disaster on our hands much like the Florida Everglades.

Just look at these lists of species currently wreaking havoc and irreversible destruction to the Southern US.
Nonnative Species
It's a serious problem.
Would you want Australia to EVER be anywhere near this bad? I don't. And we have to take a hardline stance now, while there isn't a problem so we never do.
Australia and New Zealand have the toughest quarantine laws in the world apart from The Galapagos, and it's to protect our endemic native wildlife from the outside worlds hazards, this includes its animals - of all kinds.
I love how unique our nation is and have absolutely zero desire to see it populated by the animals of others.

Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.

 

[junglepython2]

Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.

Any amnesty that would legalise exotics already here would cause a massive flood of smuggled animals into the country.

 

[Jacknife]

Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.

It sets a precedent. You can't deny it in any way.

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Except dogs, cats, sheep, cattle, horses, goats, Llamas, Alpacas, Ostriches, rats, mice, Guinea Pigs, rabbits, ferrets, camels, donkeys, numerous exotic birds and fish and no doubt lots more I have forgotten. The toughest quarantine laws in the world havent stopped the influx of exotic reptiles over the years. I have no interest one way or the other as far as legalising exotics BUT people need to look at what is out there. The species I listed are just the legal ones. It's amazing that the most destructive invasive species in the world (next to man), the cat, is virtually uncontrolled. I have lost count of how many times someone has told me that their cat doesnt kill native animals, maybe the odd mouse but nothing native or that their cat has a bell around it's neck so everything can hear it coming. I cant take a ban on exotic reptiles seriously while an animal 1000 times more destructive is allowed to roam free virtually everywhere.

Couldn't agree with you any more mate. It it were up to me I'd string the lot of them up.
Sadly with Livestock being the foundation of this country, its a little hard to ever go back on that.
Most everything you've mentioned there aside from foxes, rabbits, camels, have been brought over for stock trade rather than private pet trade, it sucks but it's in a different bucket.
The rats and mice came with civilization, and the naivety of our forefathers brought the rest(foxes, rabbits, ferrets for sport/hunt).
These days we know better. It's safer to keep the doors locked and try to deal with whats already in instead of handing the prison over to the inmates as I see.

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

most exotics are actually bred here but a few probably came in with the jags and zebras but that's ok they are native, right?

yeah mate that has nothing to do with the argument? a big statement not knowing where i stand with jags and zebs etc.....

 

[champagne]

People who want to keep exotics will and people who don't won't. Destroying a few pets here and there has very little effect on numbers being bred each year and with the laws getting tighter on caging ect within the licensed system more people are moving off license...

 

[fallenfeathers]

It sets a precedent. You can't deny it in any way.

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Couldn't agree with you any more mate. It it were up to me I'd string the lot of them up.
Sadly with Livestock being the foundation of this country, its a little hard to ever go back on that.
Most everything you've mentioned there aside from foxes, rabbits, camels, have been brought over for stock trade rather than private pet trade, it sucks but it's in a different bucket.
The rats and mice came with civilization, and the naivety of our forefathers brought the rest(foxes, rabbits, ferrets for sport/hunt).
These days we know better. It's safer to keep the doors locked and try to deal with whats already in instead of handing the prison over to the inmates as I see.

Kind of off topic but the fact you said you'd have ferrets strung up bothers me & I
Can't agree with you, it's been proven they aren't able to establish a wild population here. A long while ago they tried to establish a wild population to control the rabbit plague but they couldn't survive & establish in the wild so they pose little to no threat. Sorry to everyone else for going off topic but as a ferret owner I have to put that out there.

 

[Jacknife]

Kind of off topic but the fact you said you'd have ferrets strung up bothers me & I
Can't agree with you, it's been proven they aren't able to establish a wild population here. A long while ago they tried to establish a wild population to control the rabbit plague but they couldn't survive & establish in the wild so they pose little to no threat. Sorry to everyone else for going off topic but as a ferret owner I have to put that out there.

Do you have any proof of this? I'd love to give it a read if you did, sound interesting.
My point isn't specifically just about Boas though, it's about any exotic species really. They all hold the potential to be destructive.
I find it interesting my inclusion of ferrets bothers you more than me advocating the eradication of certain reptiles.
And you don't get to pick and choose which introduced species you beleive shouldn't be here. All or nothing my friend, it undermines your argument entirely.

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People who want to keep exotics will and people who don't won't. Destroying a few pets here and there has very little effect on numbers being bred each year and with the laws getting tighter on caging ect within the licensed system more people are moving off license...

Yeah this could be the case, doesn't mean we should just let it slide. These people need to know they are breaking laws and there are repercussions to it even if not all are caught. Take away the punishment what is the point of law at all?

 

[fallenfeathers]

I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.

 

[Rogue5861]

I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.

Picking and choosing seems to be what our permits are about, basic and advanced licenses for different native species.

I think we really have enough species as it is so would prefer we destroyed any non-native reptiles or other animals. Im sure we dont want burmese pythons establising a colony up in the tropics, it really wont do our natives any good.

The main thing is we have nothing to gain by introducing these exotics into the country, maybe fatten a few peoples wallets though. If it was tightly monitored and people werent gonna let them escape im sure they could allow them on licenses, but we already have such a nice selection of pet species we can keep.


Rick

 

[Retic]

I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.

Yes it is foolish to think that all non native species are harmful to the environment but you have an overworked underfunded wildlife authority so nothing will change, it's easier to just blanket ban everything and leave all the exotics underground. I used to sell rats and mice to a bloke in Brisbane and the 2nd delivery I made he was offering me all sorts of Cornsnake morphs, Iguanas and other things. Some people would be amazed at what is out there.

 

[Becceles]

I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?

 

[Jacknife]

I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?

This.

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The main thing is we have nothing to gain by introducing these exotics into the country, maybe fatten a few peoples wallets though. If it was tightly monitored and people werent gonna let them escape im sure they could allow them on licenses, but we already have such a nice selection of pet species we can keep.


Rick

This is also a big thing for me - it benefits this country entirely zero to allow them here except to make a few people a lot of money.

 

[Bushman]

Interesting discussion guys.

I feel quite strongly that we can't afford to take any risks whatsoever (no matter how small) by having exotic species in this great land. Our wildlife is unique and priceless and we as custodians and caretakers cannot afford to do any more harm than we've already done. We should at the very least be trying to minimize any harm done.

It's really not necessary to have any more exotics in the country than we already have and we should remove the ones that are here. We have plenty of wonderful herps in this country already. Let's be happy with what we've got and not risk losing what we've got because we want more.
People who want exotics in this country remind me of the story of a dog with a bone in it's mouth, that sees its reflection in the water. The dog tries to grab the bone in the reflection and loses the bone it already had.

 

[Gaboon]

I think we should be more concerned about politics of England and what type of law is starting to take over the current laws there, eventually effecting Australian laws. Exotic reptiles are the last of this country's concerns unlike extreme law systems becomeing Australian law, the government won't care about Exotic reptiles at all and protecting Australia's environment and animals in 50 - 60 years because it will simply will not be our goverment. All the native animals won't really matter and it will be all about the exotics. I'm just being realistic and if you want to talk about what will happen and what you would like to happen with use of logic, well that's two diffirent things.

 

[moosenoose]

I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?

I think the point being made is that they'd still be illegal, but the ones found don't have to be euthanized if they can go to private collections. If they can't find a suitable licensed keeper to take them in, then put them down by all means. Perhaps the main problem is they'd still have to be quarantined & that costs departments money. Perhaps the money required can be additionally funded by those caught with the animal?

Hell, if you can have a flipping Fox Rescue program, you can have an exotic snake program. I still can't believe they've got a legalized fox rescue program operating up in NSW - even though there are the benefits of active removal.

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Plenty of people out there currently who are actively seeking an end to the shooting of feral animals...go figure!

 

[Retic]

I think we should be more concerned about politics of England and what type of law is starting to take over the current laws there, eventually effecting Australian laws. Exotic reptiles are the last of this country's concerns unlike extreme law systems becomeing Australian law, the government won't care about Exotic reptiles at all and protecting Australia's environment and animals in 50 - 60 years because it will simply will not be our goverment. All the native animals won't really matter and it will be all about the exotics. I'm just being realistic and if you want to talk about what will happen and what you would like to happen with use of logic, well that's two diffirent things.

What? Does this make sense to anyone?