Can you ID this.

[DanTheMan]

Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.

I have never seen a thread saying "look at this picture of a brown looking snake, take a random guess so I can tell what would happen if my 5 year old picked it up!"
This thread was posted for a guess, that's cool, I never said it wasn't. I see where you're coming from, and it's great you go through your field guide (as most do) to make sure you can try and give the most accurate ID for the person. My comment wasn't aimed at anyone on this thread, simply backing Scott up, saying that in some cases it isn't best to reply unless you know for a fact which snake it is.

I totally agree, if they wanted to make a point of the dangers of misidentifying then this thread was a pointless way of doing it
Next time if the "experts" that never get an id wrong don't people guessing at an identification they shouldn't ask the people veiwing to have a guess.

Thanks Gex

As said, this thread isn't an example of what we're talking about, this one was for guessing, others are people that don't know the 1st thing about snakes that are wanting an ID of some snake they saw around their house, and are wanting to know if it poses a threat to their family and whether or not it's worth getting a snake catcher in.

 

[Sturdy]

Here is a question....

NOW BE HONEST...

For those of you who gave a correct ID tell me how you figured it out" ( in case someone got a lucky guess)

For those of you who gave a incorrect ID please state which aspect of the red belly made you think it was something else and how you came about that ID

This thread was posted to show off IMO one stunner of a red belly and of course to throw off some people...
But now since its become more of a "get more education before making a ID"

you can all learn from each others mistakes and correct IDs.

So please share you methods you how you came about your ID.

Sturdy.

 

[DanTheMan]

Brilliant idea Sturdy!

 

[eipper]

considering this snake was in my "hand" so to speak it was a fair bit easier...however if you look carefully at the first pic you can see the red/black marking on the lower midbody and edges of the ventral scales.

That being said, I realise it was a guess....I said (offline) that it would not surprise me if a number of people got it wrong...due to the different markings on the head to the norm. I used it to illustrate how so many can muck up an id on even a common species.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Elapidae1]

I steered away from the RBB as it appeared to me that in the 2 pic it was cream or white just up around the sides of the neck . Is this the case ? I thought the red sides usually were full the length of the snake. I then attempted to try and distinguish something in the head scale pattern between Notechis, Oxyuranus, Pseudechis and psuedonaja ,even had I possessed a more thorough guide I,m not sure this would have bought me to a conclusion. Upon further reading the width of the head may have ruled out pseudonaja, except the side on view just seemed to me to look closest to Pseudonaja textilis because of the size of the eye and distance between the eye and rostral. this is what lead me to my first guess even though I could not find an example of any brown snakes with such a dark back.Are the parietals more elongated in pseudonaja than in pseudechis? 2nd guess of the tiger snake was because I have seen plenty of black ones but the head looks different to me.

Are all brown snakes egg bearers

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

I found an adult blacksnake in the northwest of Sydney basin
which had an entirely brown head,I have some pictures here
somewhere I will post he was a beautiful snake who I saw one day
then went back to same spot the next day and found him again!

 

[waruikazi]

Yeah you're right it is a form of learning. But keep your guess to yourself. You might not get bitten but some kid might because he/she was 100% sure that what they found was a keelback because they read someone's ilinformed guess on the internet. A she'll be right and not my responsibility attitude just doesn't cut it in my eyes.

Guessing at pictures is a form of learning, chances are I am not going to get bitten by a picture on my computer screen. If i come across any snake in the wild and am not 110% sure then I will keep my distance, anyone that's unsure and still decides to handle in my opinion is a fool. IF IN DOUBT TREAT ALL SNAKES AS POTENTIALLY DEADLY. If people like you are so worried that others could put themselves at risk by these guessing games then the responsible approach would be to not post them.

waruikazi, the thread was about having an estimate. I find these really helpful for getting an objective id.

And there is nothing wrong with having a guess in a thread like this.

perhaps if the thread was titled "snake in my loungeroom - please id" then people who really dont know shouldnt guess, but in this particular thread it has been interesting and harmless.

cheers

In a thread like this i think it is less harmful to take a guess but i don't agree that it is harmless. My response that you quoted was inresponse to the rubbish below. Although i agree that threads like these are interesting i do not agree that guessing is harmless and i still think it is potentailly harmful. I counted 6 different genus guesses in the first two pages, that is just ridiculous.

Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.

Put this on for size. While i was typing this thread i got a call to a house to catch a whip snake. It was 100% a whip snake because the kid who found it, like us, is an enthusiast just like us and reads all about snakes and gets on the internet blah blah blah. The only reason he didn't catch it himself was because it escaped him and got up a pipe.

I got there and caught a gwardar. Do you see the problem now? This is a scenario that plays out all the time. People don't think they know, they know that they know what snake they are looking at when they are flat out wrong which puts them in a potentially lethal situation. I get on my high horse about this all the time and i will continue to. If you are going to ID a snake you make dam sure that you know what you are doing, otherwise button it and let someone else do it.

 

[JasonL]

considering this snake was in my "hand" so to speak it was a fair bit easier...however if you look carefully at the first pic you can see the red/black marking on the lower midbody and edges of the ventral scales.

Cheers,
Scott

haha, not if your colourblind you can't ... I need a large amount of bright red to see red!

 

[Elapidae1]

Yeah you're right it is a form of learning. But keep your guess to yourself. You might not get bitten but some kid might because he/she was 100% sure that what they found was a keelback because they read someone's ilinformed guess on the internet. A she'll be right and not my responsibility attitude just doesn't cut it in my eyes.





In a thread like this i think it is less harmful to take a guess but i don't agree that it is harmless. My response that you quoted was inresponse to the rubbish below. Although i agree that threads like these are interesting i do not agree that guessing is harmless and i still think it is potentailly harmful. I counted 6 different genus guesses in the first two pages, that is just ridiculous.



Put this on for size. While i was typing this thread i got a call to a house to catch a whip snake. It was 100% a whip snake because the kid who found it, like us, is an enthusiast just like us and reads all about snakes and gets on the internet blah blah blah. The only reason he didn't catch it himself was because it escaped him and got up a pipe.

I got there and caught a gwardar. Do you see the problem now? This is a scenario that plays out all the time. People don't think they know, they know that they know what snake they are looking at when they are flat out wrong which puts them in a potentially lethal situation. I get on my high horse about this all the time and i will continue to. If you are going to ID a snake you make dam sure that you know what you are doing, otherwise button it and let someone else do it.

Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses

 

[GeckoJosh]

Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses

Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?

Thanks Gex

 

[waruikazi]

Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses

What a load of bollocks that is. Read your post, no wait i'll summarize it for you 'I'll give out rubbish information and then wash my hands of all responsibility.'

I think this particular thread is very irresponsible for encouraging a guessing game at elapids.

But that is this thread, ID threads in general i think are a good idea and i really enjoy them. As they say there is no such thing as a stupid question. However there is a such thing as a stupid answer and do you really think people post ID threads (apart from this one) for people to 'guess' what a snake is they have seen?

Wether you believe it or not and like it or not people do accept the answers they get from forums as fact. What i am promoting is cutting out the potentially deadly misinformation that gets thrown about. I don't understand what your problem is with that. I don't know what your experience with reptiles and the general public is. I have reasonable experience and you would not believe how many times a lethal snake is mistook for a harmless one, it would happen on a fornightly basis. I am committed to do whatever i can to reduce the risk of anyone being bitten by a dangerous snake and cutting out the guessing games is part of that.

Spin it what ever way you want, whatever helps you sleep at night. I know i'm doing what is best to keep people safe, can you say that?

 

[-Matt-]

Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?

Thanks Gex

Yet they still do pick up that snake because just maybe they have taken the word of some self-proclaimed expert on an internet forum that has thrown up a random I.D.

I understand where everybody is coming from on here, but people are still going to go out and pick up snakes based purely on what somebody has 'told' them it is.

 

[waruikazi]

Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?

Thanks Gex

If someone isn't 100% on there identification skills WHAT ARE THEY DOING TRYING TO IDENTIFYING THEM FOR OTHER PEOPLE? Jeezuz Christ, like talking to a brick wall.

 

[WombleHerp]

I don't say what I think it is written on its own unless I am damn sure of what it is. If in the chance I do guess, I say "I THINK it may be a ...." or "It COULD be a ...." simple. Then they know that it isn't 100% unless I say it is 100%. Agreed, vens are not to be messed around with! And in the chance of someone being misinformed off a forum, about the identification of a snake, and getting bitten by something dangerous, then it is on them AND the people who gave the wrong ID. So if you want that on your hands then go ahead, make foolish posts saying you know what it could be when you arent 100% sure. And if you are IDing a snake, sure, be foolish and take everything said off a varied experienced forum to heart like gold. Everyone just needs to come to senses and think things through a little better IMO

 

[GeckoJosh]

If someone isn't 100% on there identification skills WHAT ARE THEY DOING TRYING TO IDENTIFYING THEM FOR OTHER PEOPLE? Jeezuz Christ, like talking to a brick wall.

No need to be rude .

My point is if someone cant id a snake by them selves in the field then what are they doing picking it up?
For the record i agree that people shouldn't id snakes unless they are 100%, no harm in making an educated guess if they state that it is a guess

 

[hoppyone]

tiabrowntiger????? no idea!!!! love it tho!!!!

 

[waruikazi]

No need to be rude .
If the thread op didn't say to have a guess i wouldn't have bothered posting, i most certainly would never try and id a snake that wasn't sure about, sure i have speculated in what i thought it may be, but that is all.
My point is if someone cant id a snake by them selves in the field then what are they doing picking it up?

I wasn't being rude i was venting my utter frustration in the hope of driving home a point. Like i said i think this thread is irresponsible and i'm glad you are starting to see my point of view.

Your point is valid, what are they doing messing with a snake that they don't know? But do you really think it doesn't happen?

And before anyone says it i do practice what i preach, unless i can atleast be 100% on genus i wont say a thing.

 

[eipper]

I wasn't being rude i was venting my utter frustration in the hope of driving home a point. Like i said i think this thread is irresponsible and i'm glad you are starting to see my point of view.

Your point is valid, what are they doing messing with a snake that they don't know? But do you really think it doesn't happen?

And before anyone says it i do practice what i preach, unless i can atleast be 100% on genus i wont say a thing.

Gordo,

The thread is irresponsible??? why because highlights just how easy it is for people to muck up an id...

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Dragontamer]

correct me if im wrong but every guess posted (bar GTP ) was a potentially deadly snake...

 

[waruikazi]

Gordo,

The thread is irresponsible??? why because highlights just how easy it is for people to muck up an id...

Cheers,
Scott

I think encouraging people to guess at the ID of an elapid is irresponsible. I doubt there were any bad intentions but just look at what it has done. I'm having to argue until i'm blue in the face with members about why it's not OK to guess an elapid ID.

I would love it if you could drive it home about how easy it is to mess up an ID.