Can you re-freeze mice?

Lachy89 · Apr 5, 2013

My snakes keep not eating their mice, but it seems like a bit of a waste to throw them away?

Ambush · Apr 5, 2013

No.. just like any other meat.. BAD idea

Lachy89 · Apr 5, 2013

Dang nabit.

Bart70 · Apr 5, 2013

Ambush said:
No.. just like any other meat.. BAD idea

Actually not quite correct.......The NSW Health Dept ran a media campaign a while back to dispel the old myth that once meat had been defrosted it could was no longer fit for human consumption if re-frozen. It is quite ok to re-freeze meat providing it has not been left sitting at temperatures that could potentially breed bacteria. If it has been defrosted in a fridge and has remained refrigerated, or is still fit for consumption at the point of re-freezing, it can be safely re-frozen.

Not sure this would apply to mice/rats tho.....as they are warmed for the attempted feed, although if the cycle to defrost to warm and back to frozen is relatively quick it may be unlikely that bacteria would grow in that time....not sure I would risk it at the sake of a mouse worth a couple of dollars.

Reptilez123 · Apr 5, 2013

i refroze one once and fed it to my snake the next week but i only did that is because i couldnt buy anymore rats for the week and that was the last one.

Wing_Nut · Apr 5, 2013

There is no major issue with refreezing mice for your snakes to eat. Snakes have a very robust digestive system and it would have to be quite rotten to cause any major issue. So long as the mouse hasn't been sitting for too long or showing any signs of decay its not a problem to refreeze it. Having said that, if there is something not right about your food, your snake will probably refuse to eat it anyway. What I would be more inclined to worry about is why is your snake refusing food in the first place.

Kind Regards

Wing_Nut

Ambush · Apr 5, 2013

Meat should be messed with Bart.. Get foo poisoning once and you wouldnt either. May not happen 1st 50 times.. but when it does.. Lookout.

disintegratus · Apr 5, 2013

The general consensus is it's a bad idea. Personally I don't, but I have enough critters that no food goes to waste in this house

I think a reasonable rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't do it for yourself, don't do it for your snakes. That said, I don't swallow my food whole, but I'm not about to cut up their rodents and teach them to use a knife and fork...

andynic07 · Apr 5, 2013

Probably wouldn't hurt but is it really worth taking the risk over a small amount of money?

Baldy · Apr 5, 2013

Imho, if you are buying from a mouse/rat breeder they have usually been frozen once, and you maybe able to get away with it. However, if you are buying from a pet shop the chances that they have already been defrosted partly or completely, greatly increase, either through negligance or incompetance. I have had friends lose snakes through bad food, (only thing that we could deduce to be the cause) so i religiously throw any thawed rodents out that dont get eaten. Expensive way to go, but at least i know im not risking my snakes.

Hope this helps.
Sean.

Pythoninfinite · Apr 5, 2013

As Wing_Nut says, there is no problem as long as it has not started to obviously decay. I've done it as necessary for 50 years now, without a single issue, EVER. Our digestive tracts behave in a very different way to that of a snake's, as I've pointed out here dozens of times (maybe we could do a sticky about this???). In many cases with a standard to large meal, the food item actually begins to decay in the gut of the snake before the digestive juices take control, because they don't chew their food. Their systems are designed to handle this decaying material with ease.

Obviously you wouldn't keep it till it was stinking, but I've seen snakes eat rotting carrion with no harm whatsoever. Equating their system to that of humans is entirely irrelevant.

Jamie

borntobnude · Apr 5, 2013

Bart70 said:
Actually not quite correct.......The NSW Health Dept ran a media campaign a while back to dispel the old myth that once meat had been defrosted it could was no longer fit for human consumption if re-frozen. It is quite ok to re-freeze meat providing it has not been left sitting at temperatures that could potentially breed bacteria. If it has been defrosted in a fridge and has remained refrigerated, or is still fit for consumption at the point of re-freezing, it can be safely re-frozen.

Not sure this would apply to mice/rats tho.....as they are warmed for the attempted feed, although if the cycle to defrost to warm and back to frozen is relatively quick it may be unlikely that bacteria would grow in that time....not sure I would risk it at the sake of a mouse worth a couple of dollars.

Wing_Nut said:
There is no major issue with refreezing mice for your snakes to eat. Snakes have a very robust digestive system and it would have to be quite rotten to cause any major issue. So long as the mouse hasn't been sitting for too long or showing any signs of decay its not a problem to refreeze it. Having said that, if there is something not right about your food, your snake will probably refuse to eat it anyway. What I would be more inclined to worry about is why is your snake refusing food in the first place.

Kind Regards

Wing_Nut

Absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!

If our (NSW )
health dept thinks its ok they need to have a good look at themselves and their rules and regulations first

any food item reaching a temperature of 5 oC will start to breed some sort of bacteria the temperature that most bacteria stop is 65 oC once you have warmed your mouse to room temp it will only be about 15 minutes until things start to grow inside it that are not good for your precious pet .

if you put it back in the freezer it will take about an hour to completley re freeze so you have about 50 minutes of things growing . In most rodents you have bacteria that should be frozen for a long period of time to make sure they are completley destroyed ( ask a GOOD snake food supplier ) . And then you have the period of time once you food reaches 5oC to eating temp where those bacteria will again start to grow !!!!!

So NO do not refreeze your snake food !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reptalica · Apr 5, 2013

I never re-freeze meat that I use for human consumption so that also applies to my animals from my womas to my cats to my greyhound.

Wing_Nut · Apr 5, 2013

borntobnude said:
Absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!

any food item reaching a temperature of 5 oC will start to breed some sort of bacteria the temperature that most bacteria stop is 65 oC once you have warmed your mouse to room temp it will only be about 15 minutes until things start to grow inside it that are not good for your precious pet .

if you put it back in the freezer it will take about an hour to completley re freeze so you have about 50 minutes of things growing . In most rodents you have bacteria that should be frozen for a long period of time to make sure they are completley destroyed ( ask a GOOD snake food supplier ) . And then you have the period of time once you food reaches 5oC to eating temp where those bacteria will again start to grow !!!!!

So NO do not refreeze your snake food !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of this assumes that your snakes digestive system would somehow be harmed by the introduction of this bacteria. The digestive system of snakes is well developed to deal with higher levels of bacteria in their food than a human. The comparison you make as Jamie has stated is irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason why you cannot refreeze your snakes food so long as it does not show obvious signs of decay. If you choose to, or not to, the end result for your snake will be no different.

It is unlikely that any amount of freezing will completely destroy all the bacteria in a chosen prey item.

This does not take away in anyway your right to manage your reptiles as you see fit, however the correct answer to the OP is, yes you can refreeze mice and feed them to your snake.

Regards

Wing_Nut

Pythoninfinite · Apr 5, 2013

borntobnude said:
Absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!

If our (NSW )
health dept thinks its ok they need to have a good look at themselves and their rules and regulations first

any food item reaching a temperature of 5 oC will start to breed some sort of bacteria the temperature that most bacteria stop is 65 oC once you have warmed your mouse to room temp it will only be about 15 minutes until things start to grow inside it that are not good for your precious pet .

if you put it back in the freezer it will take about an hour to completley re freeze so you have about 50 minutes of things growing . In most rodents you have bacteria that should be frozen for a long period of time to make sure they are completley destroyed ( ask a GOOD snake food supplier ) . And then you have the period of time once you food reaches 5oC to eating temp where those bacteria will again start to grow !!!!!

So NO do not refreeze your snake food !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Without getting into the human consumption debate, which is not relevant here, how long do you think it takes the digestive juices of a snake to penetrate the muscle wall and gut cavity of a large rat, rabbit, wallaby or pig btbn? You are actually blowing a lot of hot air here. A snake's digestion, and the speed at which it operates, is dependant on temperature, so it can take up to a WEEK before this happens and the digestive juices get into the rotting gut cavity of the food item in some cases. Do you think that the fermentation stops the minute the food is swallowed? Of course it doesn't - the animal continues to rot until the digestive juices get into and all around the tissues. Snakes deal with this all the time, they have to.

Your calculating freshness down to the minute is just silly in this instance, just as it is pointless comparing (modern) human digestion with that of snakes. The functions and fundamental requirements of each are totally different. Before we humans became the cossetted creatures we are today, our systems would also have to have dealt with a certain amount of decaying food when we had to eat whatever we could get, fresh or otherwise. Dogs still cope very well eating carrion.

Jamie

Lachy89 · Apr 5, 2013

Maaaan... I'm so confused now. I hate it when we all fight :'(

Snowman · Apr 5, 2013

Pythoninfinite · Apr 5, 2013

Ha - no fight - I'm right

! The facts speak for themselves. I'm not advocating that you feed rotten food items Lachy, but you certainly can refreeze a rodent (or rabbit etc) which has been rapidly thawed in hot water, and which has remained thawed for a couple of hours and is uneaten. Absolutely no harm will come to your snake.

Jamie

Lachy89 · Apr 5, 2013

Snowman said:
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/can-re-freeze-mice-181125/ ttp://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/can-refreeze-mice-thawed-195390/ http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/can-refreeze-defrosted-rats-198786/ http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/defrosted-food-179302/

Ironically, the person who posted that thread has the same name as me. (Real name that is)... (I'm assuming)
Thanks everyone for your help and differing opinions

Lachy89 · Apr 5, 2013

Thank you Jamie! I'm going to run with that answer. Much appreciated

Can you re-freeze mice?

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