Cane Toad found in Baxter Victoria

[cris]

I should bloody well hope so. What a horrid thing to do to an animal. After all the talk on here about how despicable it is to violently kill snakes that wander across people's paths, I'm amazed that anyone would think it acceptable to bludgeon another species of sentient animal to death, even a big ugly poisonous one. Bag ém and freeze ém, folks, it's far kinder.

I kill heaps of animals by blunt trauma, IMO it is the ONLY guranteed effective humane method for all animals without having to go into complex procedures or using vetenary drugs. If you think its wrong simply because its "violent" thats your problem. Some ppl can handle reality and nature some cant...

If someone really needs to kill a snake to protect themselves(this is very rare) i would hope that they shoot it or give it a clean whack on the head so it DOESNT suffer at all. After all these horrid animals are constantly going around killing prey with violence :lol: You can go and eat soy beans while i pick the headshot cute and fluffy roo out of my teeth, yum yum

 

[WombleHerp]

lol toads... they are cute in thier own way, and yet oh so evil. it is the humans fault they are here, so lets not get on the high horse of 'they all should get no sympathy, they all should die painfully' etc. i know as of many others here what they do to native fauna, and sure, it isnt nice. but its what they do! on the other hand i do believe they should be eradicated from Australia, because it is not where they belong. the two obvious methods used here are freezing and a quick blunt 'knock' to the head.. i believe that either would be fine, so long as the blunt whack to the head is done properly, and the freezing is 'eased off' by placing them in the fridge first to get them to sleep. JMO being kind in all ways possible is the best thing to do regardless of what is happening (eg the killing of native fauna because of an introduced species, not its fault its here!)



Nat

 

[Kathryn_]

The fact that other animals die a painful death due to cane toads isn't something they can be held personally responsible for, however, the level of intelligence we have carries with it responsibility. If you sleep well at night, then congratulations - being involved in some kind of bitter vendetta against an species for doing what comes naturally to them is not an acceptable moral defense in my book, certainly not when they can very easily be killed humanely - freezing an ectothermic animal is about as humane as you can get without sedatives, certainly significantly more humane than poison or blunt force. Throw a dog in front of a truck and try to tell me blunt force is not a hideous death.

 

[Miss_Croft]

Kathryn,
I agree with you – killing at Cane Toad should be humane as possible. Cooling and then freezing an ectothermic (cold blooded) animal (Cane Toad) is the most humane method of euthanizing.

The Queensland EPA suggests use of Dettol to short out the nerves system to kill cane toads. It is suggested as non-preferred method of killing as it takes some time to kill and toad is clearly in pain for that period.

Use of a blunt force trauma is only suggested by WA primary industry after the appropriate training and use of appropriate safety equipment – They also suggest after “stunning” with blunt force trauma the toad should be decapitated.

Holding cane toads by back legs and hitting against a hard surface, hitting cane toads with golf clubs or other sporting equipment is considered cruel and as such is illegal in all states of Australia. Queensland RSPCA definition of cruel death by blunt force trauma is: having to hit more than once to kill the cane toad.

 

[redbellybite]

I line them up on the road A 4X4 WHEEL kills them instantly and the splat sound you know they cant suck their lungs back in after that ..........cane toads yes are animals but dont belong here same as all ferel animals think of what its doing to our wildlife ,our plantlife is also affected by canes they are almost impossible to kill their tadpoles survive in the millions in a dirty small puddle our native frogs cant compete and the toads eat everthing from frogs to small birds and anything they can get into their gobs ,plus the fact they kill so many reps and mammals even our own domestic animals arent safe i say f##k the toad kill it quick and so be it ....these friggen morons who encourage peeps to keep them by holding races and **** like that should be the ones fined ...as a qlder i dont feel sorry for the toad especially when i find a dead rbb with a toad in its mouth because the poor thing couldnt tell what it was till too late..........death to all cane toads and there is no way i would put them stinking things in my freezer.......ok had my beef .........redbellybite.

 

[salebrosus]

Amen redbellybite!

 

[cris]

Kathryn,
I agree with you – killing at Cane Toad should be humane as possible. Cooling and then freezing an ectothermic (cold blooded) animal (Cane Toad) is the most humane method of euthanizing.

The Queensland EPA suggests use of Dettol to short out the nerves system to kill cane toads. It is suggested as non-preferred method of killing as it takes some time to kill and toad is clearly in pain for that period.

Use of a blunt force trauma is only suggested by WA primary industry after the appropriate training and use of appropriate safety equipment – They also suggest after “stunning” with blunt force trauma the toad should be decapitated.

Holding cane toads by back legs and hitting against a hard surface, hitting cane toads with golf clubs or other sporting equipment is considered cruel and as such is illegal in all states of Australia. Queensland RSPCA definition of cruel death by blunt force trauma is: having to hit more than once to kill the cane toad.

Well you are wrong with your first and last point, freezing is actually a very cruel method of killing many ecotherms. It is currently believed by some that fridging and freezing toads is humane, but detol was once considered humane just as freezing reptiles was once considered humane. I seriously doubt cooling and freezing a toad isnt far more stressful than killing it instantly, say by grabbing its back feet and whacking its head(instant humane death). I personally dont think forcing ecotherms into extremely undesirable temperatures is humane, at least it would have to be extremely stressful and it is believed many ecotherms can also feel their cells explode as they freeze. Is there any good science behind the claim freezing them is humane?

 

[hornet]

Don't start on the cruelty to animals debate, cos we could argue all day about how cruel it is to feed crickets to our herps.

Whats there argue about? Inverts dont feel pain so feeding them live is not cruel in any way shape or form. As from the way to kill toads. Even tho they are a pest everyone hates they should still be humanly euthanised. A good blow to the head is the best way.

 

[mcsrx]

well i say they are pests, and i say kill them any way that pleases you.

 

[Miss_Croft]

Cris – About humane killing of animals - I am going to stick to what I have stated about cane toad euthanatizing. After dealing with many people like the ones in RSPCA (People who say what is cruel) there are two things – what is and what they say is. Stunning a cane toad via blunt force trauma will probably result in instant death (Read most humane) – but that is not the view of organizations like RSPCA. RSPCA and EPA have stated (With press releases) cane toads should not be euthanized via blunt force trauma and they state preferred method of euthanizing is freezing and second method – Dettol (Thus my support for the latter).

Let’s call it bureaucrats doing what they do best – making laws that hurt the things they are trying to protect.

 

[Kathryn_]

Hornet: I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but you are simply incorrect. Any animal with a centralised nervous system, including invertebrates, feels pain. It's that simple.

Cris: "can actually feel their cells explode"? Firstly, cells don't "explode" when frozen - that's why bacteria don't die in your freezer. Secondly, while every cell in any animal's body is linked to a nerve, to imply that they each deliver a painful sensation when they're damaged is just ridiculous - do you feel your skin cells dying? Cells aren't traumatised by freezing, they just slow down and stop in exactly the same way an entire ectothermic organism does, this is just fact. They go to sleep the same way a hibernating animal does - the cold slows their processes down, they lose consciousness and they die. There simply isn't an argument to be had here.

 

[nuthn2do]

Simple, if it's not instant it's cruel

 

[thesilverbeast]

Hornet: I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but you are simply incorrect. Any animal with a centralised nervous system, including invertebrates, feels pain. It's that simple.

Cris: "can actually feel their cells explode"? Firstly, cells don't "explode" when frozen - that's why bacteria don't die in your freezer. Secondly, while every cell in any animal's body is linked to a nerve, to imply that they each deliver a painful sensation when they're damaged is just ridiculous - do you feel your skin cells dying? Cells aren't traumatised by freezing, they just slow down and stop in exactly the same way an entire ectothermic organism does, this is just fact. They go to sleep the same way a hibernating animal does - the cold slows their processes down, they lose consciousness and they die. There simply isn't an argument to be had here.

except for the fact that people who get hypothermia to the point where they almost die say its excruciating. Yes i know its mammals and not ectothermic amphibians but can you prove with literature these claims that you are making? (im not saying you are wrong, just curious if you have recourses available to you that you are getting info from)

 

[Kathryn_]

I've actually just sold my zoology text, so I'll have to get into the library at uni tomorrow to find you something referenced. Basically, endotherms' bodies fight extreme external temperatures as hard as they can to maintain a consistent internal temp, in our case 38*C. Ectotherms' like herps just "go with it", which is why you put sick axoltyls, and I'd imagine sick frogs, in the fridge - it induces a kind of hibernationy, coma-like state as all their functions slow down. I've done this with a bunch of my axoltyls over the years and it's never seemed to bother them, they just go to sleep and wake up again when you take them out. I've euthanised fish like this when necessary as well, and once again, when you check on them regularly you see that they just go to sleep - there's no evidence of any distress.

As I said, I'll find you something in a text tomorrow.

 

[nuthn2do]

I've actually just sold my zoology text, so I'll have to get into the library at uni tomorrow to find you something referenced. Basically, endotherms' bodies fight extreme external temperatures as hard as they can to maintain a consistent internal temp, in our case 38*C. Ectotherms' like herps just "go with it", which is why you put sick axoltyls, and I'd imagine sick frogs, in the fridge - it induces a kind of hibernationy, coma-like state as all their functions slow down. I've done this with a bunch of my axoltyls over the years and it's never seemed to bother them, they just go to sleep and wake up again when you take them out. I've euthanised fish like this when necessary as well, and once again, when you check on them regularly you see that they just go to sleep - there's no evidence of any distress.

As I said, I'll find you something in a text tomorrow.

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf, pretty much the world wide standard.