Carpet pythons - what's in the name?

[Jacknifejimmy]

Taxonomy is the same, basically you just seem to be getting more locality specific names these days. There are distinct differences between an Atherton Ranges and a Glasshouse Mountains Carpet for example - yet both are still M. S. McDowelli.

Like a few others have said I believe it's a way for people to jack up prices and claim rarity over certain colour patterns...

 

[ghosts]

Just the same as native gtp and exotic gtp, just a way to try and charge more...

 

[Waterrat]

Just the same as native gtp and exotic gtp, just a way to try and charge more...

Which is the one more .... and what are you getting at?

 

[shell477]

I am still puzzled why people recognise "Mareeba carpet" as some kind of separate entity, how does it differ from the rest? Peter Krauss lives in Mareeba and we had many discussions about this mysterious beast .......

Because certain someone's are promoting it so. A person I remember talking to when I first got my python told me that when he queried the name "Mareeba" with the seller, because he couldnt find any information on it, he was told "that's because its only a new breed".

Perhaps they thought they could make some money with their 'New breed'.

 

[eipper]

As said earlier M. s. cheynei is the same genetically as M. s. mcdowelli which are both the same as M. s. variegata. Therefore the eastern seaboard carpets are one of three subspecies either the nominate M. spilota spilota, M. s. metcalfei or M. s. variegata.

As for the reference to green pythons... The big difference is that there is marked genetic variation among green python populations and that apparently these genetic differences could be used in conjunction with morphology could prove out different subspecies in M .viridis.

Cheers
scott

 

[Kenno]

Michael,

I think you are asking a goldfish to climb a tree...

 

[ghosts]

Which is the one more .... and what are you getting at?

Well all gtp are still gtp just from different areas with different colors, marking ect. It's the same point your getting at.... Isn't it? All just for sales. I really would question true behind pure locale animals as most people are just repeating what was told to them by the sellers...

 

[eipper]

Jungle jags

Green pythons unlike the carpets mentioned above do show both morphological and genetic differences between populations. Most of the populations have names that are presently in synonymous under viridis. This however I think will likely change pending further research.

Cheers
Scott

 

[geckodan]

I've searched all my north QLD maps and I cannot find a town with rainforest called "Honey". Help me Michael. ??

 

[ghosts]

Jungle jags

Green pythons unlike the carpets mentioned above do show both morphological and genetic differences between populations. Most of the populations have names that are presently in synonymous under viridis. This however I think will likely change pending further research.

Cheers
Scott

Arent color, pattern and size, morphological differences? And are you saying that jungles and coastals are genetically the same sub sp.?

 

[scorps]

Oh the hidden town of honey, it's a great place where all the washed put jungles live and boast about how beautiful they are haha

 

[Waterrat]

At the end of the day, it's the buyer's choice to believe or to search for the facts. If all reptile keepers (or to be) were clued up on the very simple taxonomy and scientific names of the carpet python group before they buy their next snake, the "new breed" inventors wouldn't have it so easy.

On the bright site, a friend of mine sent me this photo of this rainforest dwelling Carpet Python from Kuranda.

 

[eipper]

Yes jungles and coastals are the same genetically.

 

[ghosts]

All I'm getting at is this is the usual thread about people using buzz terms to sell snakes and the people pointing it out do the same thing.

 

[eipper]

No there is a number of distinct genetically different populations of gtp's.

 

[Waterrat]

As are gtp....

Certainly not. Read: Rawlings & Donnellan 2003

I've searched all my north QLD maps and I cannot find a town with rainforest called "Honey". Help me Michael. ??

No problem, look again, it's about 120km north of Caramel just pass Citrus.

 

[Red-Ink]

Locales?? well that definitely makes my M. s. mcdowelli different from yours, maybe even worth a bit more, just a tad bit more spesh you know.

On a serious note I think locales give an indication/expectation of morphological appearance (what species they are is for people with letters behind their name to work out). Wether or not this holds true in nature I can not say being an internet herper from Melbourne. I do understand though that specimens labelled with a locale in the hobby "seem" to have the same appearance across the board. Seems to hold true for Morelia spilota and Antaresia stimsoni in the captive industry.

The only bit I saw of Mareeba was the wetlands... no herps just birds of prey and water fowls as I was passing through unto Julatten (no herps in Julatten either but a wonderful lunch at the Highland Tavern - one of the most memorable part of that trip lol)

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

That is a nice Coastal carpet Michael.
So can anyone really say for sure??? I have been told by local herpers in North Qld that even in the same area you will find different coloured & different patterned jungles in the same patch of scrub. What about the jullaten Jungles B&W. Coastal Carpets have a very wide range & come in many colours & patterns.
So the only way i could get my simple head around it is that there are two distinct species. Morelia s cheynei & Morelia s mcdowelli.
This would make any specific colour form from a specific area a local trait, such as Tully Jungle or Jullaten Jungle, but unless one was certain of the specific locality it would be hard to call it that. & then if there can be different colours & patterns in the same area can this be possible to name a specific locality?? I bought a few B&Y jungles once from the same clutch & one turned out B&W, so i got back onto the chap & told him that he had got one of them mixed up & sent a B&W Jullaten instead, & he said that he did not have any.
Food for thought.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Waterrat]

Julatten is a prime example of variation in colour in relatively small area with heterogenous habitat. Most of the juvenile carpets are B&W but most of the adults and sub-adults are not.
Would you pick this one for Julatten carpet?

Ian, M.s. chaynei and M.s. mcdowelli are not species. They're both subspecies of Morelia spilota and even that is not true based on DNA evidence. They are the same with different adaptations for living in two different habitat types (rainforest and woodland).

 

[longqi]

In Australia we are lucky, but in countries where reptiles are still taken from the wild, perceived "rarity" can have a massive impact on the survival of wild populations.

Never a truer word spoken
I used to visit Missool fairly frequently to look at the chondros because they were very easy to spot there
Then Canary yellow became flavour of the month
Not easy to see any chondros on either Missool or Kofiau now

Exactly the same thing is happening with Dwarf Retics etc etc
All of the latest fads are from islands with very limited populations
Pet trade takes the best of the best and destroys the genetic viability of that island very quickly

Pet trade actually has a lot to answer for but categorically denies this every way it can