Class 1 Dwarf Adder feeding

[slacker]

I think you will find if you ring the 1300 368 326 and push button 1 and speak to someone there you will be told NO ...all venomous snakes in QLD are on the same permit ..which is not the basic permit .

I think you'll find that if you look at the actual legislation, cris is correct. I've contacted the EPA about this a while ago and they pretty much refused to give me a straight answer. Their response was basically to look at the legislation.

 

[redbellybite]

I think you'll find that if you look at the actual legislation, cris is correct. I've contacted the EPA about this a while ago and they pretty much refused to give me a straight answer. Their response was basically to look at the legislation.

well I contacted them like two days ago finding out about such vens and was told all elapids are on the same permit ...so dont know who you spoke to but if you lot manage to get a low risk ven on your rec permit ,am sure we all would like to know

 

[ravan]

What about brown tree snakes? I know for a fact that those can be kept on a recreational licence. Pretty sure whips snakes can be as well.

brown trees are classed as colubrids arent they? then yes, colubrids can be kept on a rec licence because they are rear-fanged?

 

[redbellybite]

anyway slacker if that was the case ..dont ya think there would be alot more people owning ' lesser vens 'if the permit was a basic one only? ...

 

[slacker]

anyway slacker if that was the case ..dont ya think there would be alot more people owning ' lesser vens 'if the permit was a basic one only? ...

rbb, if you don't want to take my word for it, no worries, but go check the legislation for yourself. To be blunt, most of those people you speak to at that call center don't know anything about anything.

Go to http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au and check out the Nature Conservation Regulation 2006 (Wildlife Management). It says:

Reptiles
The following reptiles are restricted animals—
(a) a threatened, rare or near threatened reptile other than
the following—
(i) a reptile of the family Cheloniidae;
(ii) a reptile of the family Dermochelydiae;
(iii) an estuarine crocodile (Crocodylus porosus);
(iv) a freshwater crocodile (Crocodylus johnstoni);
(b) a reptile of the family Hydrophiidae;
(c) a reptile of the family Laticaudidae;
(d) the following reptiles of the family Elapidae—

Common name Scientific name
black snakes Pseudechis spp.
broad-headed snakes Hoplocephalus spp.
brown snakes Pseudonaja spp.
Collett’s snake Pseudechis colletti
copperheads Austrelaps spp.
death adders Acanthopis spp.
eastern small-eyed snake Rhinoplocephalus
nigriscens
rough scaled snake Tropidechis carinatus
taipans Oxyuranus spp.
tiger snakes Notechis spp.

And as for whether there should be more people keeping small elapids? Not really. As you said yourself, most of them are a pain in the backside and there's few around compared to the larger elapids.

 

[TahneeMaree]

Whoa... there's no way they'd let a rec holder own a tiger! or a collets! OR a death adder!!
AND you can't have crocks on anything other than a demo lisence either...

 

[slacker]

Whoa... there's no way they'd let a rec holder own a tiger! or a collets! OR a death adder!!
AND you can't have crocks on anything other than a demo lisence either...

Those elapids listed are the restricted ones. The rest are not.

As for crocs, they're expressly prohibited elsewhere, but not classed as "restricted."

 

[redbellybite]

rbb, if you don't want to take my word for it, no worries, but go check the legislation for yourself. To be blunt, most of those people you speak to at that call center don't know anything about anything.

Go to http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au and check out the Nature Conservation Regulation 2006 (Wildlife Management). It says:

Reptiles
The following reptiles are restricted animals—
(a) a threatened, rare or near threatened reptile other than
the following—
(i) a reptile of the family Cheloniidae;
(ii) a reptile of the family Dermochelydiae;
(iii) an estuarine crocodile (Crocodylus porosus);
(iv) a freshwater crocodile (Crocodylus johnstoni);
(b) a reptile of the family Hydrophiidae;
(c) a reptile of the family Laticaudidae;
(d) the following reptiles of the family Elapidae—

Common name Scientific name
black snakes Pseudechis spp.
broad-headed snakes Hoplocephalus spp.
brown snakes Pseudonaja spp.
Collett’s snake Pseudechis colletti
copperheads Austrelaps spp.
death adders Acanthopis spp.
eastern small-eyed snake Rhinoplocephalus
nigriscens
rough scaled snake Tropidechis carinatus
taipans Oxyuranus spp.
tiger snakes Notechis spp.

And as for whether there should be more people keeping small elapids? Not really. As you said yourself, most of them are a pain in the backside and there's few around compared to the larger elapids.

ok then this is my point if thats the case and only these are on the permit 2 like you say ..they they have stuffed up where are the suta Genus? the suta suta is a dangerously venomous species ..even though the other suta punctata isnt ...

in the furina the dunmalls is a dangerously venomous ..but the others are not considered ..see my point that writen leg of vens is crap and like i said i asked about specific species and was told NO all are on lic 2

 

[slacker]

ok then this is my point if thats the case and only these are on the permit 2 like you say ..they they have stuffed up where are the suta Genus? the suta suta is a dangerously venomous species ..even though the other suta punctata isnt ...

in the furina the dunmalls is a dangerously venomous ..but the others are not considered ..see my point that writen leg of vens is crap and like i said i asked about specific species and was told NO all are on lic 2

Suta suta was until recently regarded as harmless, as I recall. Can't speak for Furina dunmalli.

Look, here's a copy of an email from someone at the EPA when I contacted them about it ages ago. I wanted everything in writing.

I've shown you exactly what the legislation says. I've even linked you to the legislation itself. Here's what I have in writing from the EPA.

Morning Lee, Let me start by saying how sorry we are about the very late reply on your email. As long has you don’t have anything from the families of Elapidae, Cheloniidae, Dermochelydiae, no fresh or saltwater crocodile, Hydrophiidae, or Laticaudidae you will be fine. If you go to Page 229 Part 11 in the Nature Conservation (Wildlife Management) Regulation 2006 it clearly state what you can and can’t have. www.legislation.gov.au
If you require more information please let us know.

Katrina Theilemann
Wildlife Co-Ordinator
Ecoaccess Customer Service Unit
Environmental Services
Environmental Protection Agency

EDIT: Please not that the page number she refers to is no longer correct since a recent revision of the Regulation. The page is now 241-242.

 

[redbellybite]

isnt elapidae what we are talking about here ?

 

[slacker]

isnt elapidae what we are talking about here ?

Yes, but think of the context, rbb. Some elapids are restricted. Some are not. If you don't keep any elapids then you'll not be in breach of your basic permit conditions. True. Doesn't mean you can't keep some elapids. Read the legislation, it's what she's basing her information off anyway.

Does she not also say to check the exact legislation I refer to for an explicit list? Don't just ignore the parts of her email that you don't agree with.

 

[redbellybite]

I know what it says but I know what I got told just two days ago ..so either they stuffed up two days ago ,or who ever wrote you that email stuffed up ..but will ask again myself .

 

[slacker]

I know what it says but I know what I got told just two days ago ..so either they stuffed up two days ago ,or who ever wrote you that email stuffed up ..but will ask again myself .

haha. Don't bother speaking to them, rbb. Most of them know nothing. Personally if I wanted to get some of the elapids not mentioned in that list, I'd go out and get them and if they ever gave me any grief I'd take them to court. It's their own legislation!

Furthermore, would you rather take someone's word (who may or may not know what they're talking about -- hell most people at the EPA think a rough-scaled python is venomous........ and no, I'm not joking), or would you rather go off the legislation? Their word isn't law. The legislation is.

 

[redbellybite]

yeah I know what ya saying slacker ...but it gets confusing and frustrating ...so its seems all legal now to set up an enclosure with a curl snake in my lounge room and a dunmalls in my kitchen not in a locked room ..because they can be on my basic permit

 

[TahneeMaree]

someone should test it... then we'll know for sure

 

[cris]

I know what it says but I know what I got told just two days ago ..so either they stuffed up two days ago ,or who ever wrote you that email stuffed up ..but will ask again myself .

They often say all venomous snakes require the advanced licence, but i think this is because they think venomous automatically means highly dangerous to humans. There is something in the code of practice saying something like this, but that would mean even Colubrids would be restricted...

You can keep Scrub Pythons and large goannas on a rec licence, so i dont really see how any of the elapids not listed are more dangerous.

I was about to buy a marsh snake and the EPA ended up calling me back to say its perfectly OK, although unfortunately the sale didnt go ahead.

 

[ivonavich]

It's funny that the legislation doesn't put a blanket ban on all elapids....
Mmmmmm very interesting....

 

[redbellybite]

They often say all venomous snakes require the advanced licence, but i think this is because they think venomous automatically means highly dangerous to humans. There is something in the code of practice saying something like this, but that would mean even Colubrids would be restricted...

You can keep Scrub Pythons and large goannas on a rec licence, so i dont really see how any of the elapids not listed are more dangerous.

I was about to buy a marsh snake and the EPA ended up calling me back to say its perfectly OK, although unfortunately the sale didnt go ahead.

I dont doubt what you guys got told but they told me different as in two days ago ..it dont make any sense because there are species of elapid that are not on that list ..that I wouldnt want any newbie keeping ...some are like the SUTA SUTA(curl snake ) are regarded as high ven and yet it seems if what you say is so ,that these are able to be kept on a rec licence ...friggen bizarre :shock:

 

[TahneeMaree]

Loop holes ahoy!
*points off into the distance*

 

[slacker]

Doesn't always make much sense, rbb... I like our licensing system, don't get me wrong, but if things were to be done properly, I don't think newbies should be able to walk out and buy a perentie or a scrubby either. Having said this, I like the fact that if I want to, I can :lol: