Coastal Carpet Egg thing.

[Striker]

Ok guys. Here is a story for you. Feel free to comment or offer opinion on what happened because I'm really curious, but I don't really need urgent help as the vet is already dealing with it. I just want to hear some ideas on what is going on (as the vet can only guess as well).

Last week I acquired an 8 year old female coastal. She looks well and had fed the day before I picked her up. She was also one of three snakes I acquired from the same previous owner (including one diamond male). At the time I picked her up the previous owner said that he had noticed her "twiching/shaking" the day before, told me he didn't know why and as she may be unwell I didn't have to take her if I didn't want to. I chose to take her as she needs a home (along with the other two).

When I got her home and was sorting out her enclosure (which came with her) I found an egg (assumed at the time to be a slug). The following day I found another freshly laid one. Then I decided it was best she go to the vet to find out how many more were there - X-ray - 17 more eggs to come. The vet also said that the "twitching" was her contracting as if she has a clutch of eggs. He gave her some oxytocin, cranked up the heat in her vet clinic enclosure and hoped she may pass them. No luck. So based on some advice my vet got from the zoo, and some other collegues he has elected to remove the remaining eggs by caesarian today, because if they rot inside her it will kill her.

So I don't need help in solving the problem as it is being addressed (in the most expensive way possible of course...sigh...I love owning pets). I do want to understand what has happened though. Here are my questions:

The previous owner states that she went nowhere near the male diamond during spring/summer. Obviously somehow she did, or they may have been separated too late or whatever. I'll never know for sure what happened or why. However, even if she did get near the male why is she dropping eggs so long afterwards instead of just going on to have a normal clutch?
Why won't they all come out?
Why does she think she has laid a clutch and is incubating them when she doesn't have any with her?
Are any of the eggs likely to be viable (will candle them once removed to see)?
Could she produce slugs just by being in close proximity (a neighbouring enclosure) to the male (excuse my ignorance of python breeding processes and physiology if this is a dumb question).

Any thoughts?

 

[DeadCricket]

Its possible that they mated early and she retained the sperm due to unsuitable circumstances. It does seem an awfully long time though. Maybe she has been carrying the eggs, unable to lay them for some reason and it has just gone unnoticed until the previous owner fed her. I guess there is a chance that some could be viable. Not a huge chance but couldn't hurt to check. Is it possible to assist her with massaging before you go all the way to surgery? She must be trying to pass them which means maybe she just needs a little help.

 

[MissBree]

I'm no expert but i agree with DeadCricket, it might be best for the snake (and your pocket) if you try to massage the eggs out of her before opting for surgery.

All the best

 

[shreknkell]

I also agree with the answers you already have but.... there is always a but.... be very careful as handling her may have caused twisted egg sacks.... I had a similar situation with my female diamond the man that owned her before me either didnt relise or didnt know or care that she was gravid as he never informed us and due to moving homes enclosures and being handled she ended up having a twisted egg sack.... so i'm with you i think the vet is a very good call.... i never had clue either until all this happened.... hopefully some of the eggs are viable.... fingers crossed for you....

 

[Chris1]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/eggbound-help-147721/

heres a thread on why trying to massage the eggs out yourself if a terrible idea.

good idea taking her to a professional,

if the operation hasnt been performed yet, you could ask your vet to try massaging them out when shes under anesthetic

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/emergency-egg-removal-147754/

 

[Khagan]

Great to see someone finally actually take their animal to the vet 1st thing, rather than sitting around for days hoping APS can save them. Hope everything goes well for her.

 

[Striker]

Great to see someone finally actually take their animal to the vet 1st thing, rather than sitting around for days hoping APS can save them. Hope everything goes well for her.

Thanks for the advice guys. All great suggestions but in this case I just think there were too many unusual circumstances involved to not take more drastic action. Who knows....maybe if I just waited she would have slowly laid them all over the next week or so. But if she didn't and they did start to rot in her and it killed her I'd feel pretty bad. I certainly don't have the money to pay for surgery (still don't even know how much it is going to hurt the wallet) and hopefully if I fluke some offspring out of it I can subsidise the bill but I don't think thats very likely.

As for going straight for surgery I really don't feel like we did. The vet tried less invasive treatment for her to pass the eggs over a few days with no progress. The vet is a recommended (on this website) reptile vet, and he consulted with a zoo and another reptile specialist for advice. So it's not just one opinion opting for surgery. There was unanimous agreement.

I'd still be interested to hear any other similar stories or educated guesses on what went on here if anyone has any. Thanks again for the advice/opinions above.

Thanks for the advice guys. All great suggestions but in this case I just think there were too many unusual circumstances involved to not take more drastic action. Who knows....maybe if I just waited she would have slowly laid them all over the next week or so. But if she didn't and they did start to rot in her and it killed her I'd feel pretty bad. I certainly don't have the money to pay for surgery (still don't even know how much it is going to hurt the wallet) and hopefully if I fluke some offspring out of it I can subsidise the bill but I don't think thats very likely.

As for going straight for surgery I really don't feel like we did. The vet tried less invasive treatment for her to pass the eggs over a few days with no progress. The vet is a recommended (on this website) reptile vet, and he consulted with a zoo and another reptile specialist for advice. So it's not just one opinion opting for surgery. There was unanimous agreement.

I'd still be interested to hear any other similar stories or educated guesses on what went on here if anyone has any. Thanks again for the advice/opinions above.

The vet just rang. Surgery went fine. She is recovering well after the anaesethic and he'll keep her until Monday. No viable eggs.

 

[shreknkell]

Bummer but on the up side your girl is ok..... (Happy dance)

 

[CrystalMoon]

I am really happy that she will recover it is sad about the eggs. This was a very interesting topic I have learned a lot from it and the links that were provided
Kind regards
Crystal

 

[Wrightpython]

She could have gone for a few more months before the eggs became a problem. Because they have such a slow matabalism the eggs wouldnt have started to rot for quite sometime in fact one diamond years ago dropped two eggs 4 months after the others had hatched which was six months after the original lay. Although she did not get gravid again that year after two years she was gravid again. On a side note Elephants can hold there dead feotus inside them for up to 18 months before they miscarry it. One thing that hasnt been stated is that depending on temp and light she may have had her body clock ascue and mated very late in season. I have 2 diamonds that are still sitting on clutches from 3 weeks ago laid so i have another 5 weeks before they hatch depending on what area she was from originally and where she is now she may be confused time and cycle wise, bit like jet lag in your undies

 

[CrystalMoon]

She could have gone for a few more months before the eggs became a problem. Because they have such a slow matabalism the eggs wouldnt have started to rot for quite sometime in fact one diamond years ago dropped two eggs 4 months after the others had hatched which was six months after the original lay. Although she did not get gravid again that year after two years she was gravid again. On a side note Elephants can hold there dead feotus inside them for up to 18 months before they miscarry it. One thing that hasnt been stated is that depending on temp and light she may have had her body clock ascue and mated very late in season. I have 2 diamonds that are still sitting on clutches from 3 weeks ago laid so i have another 5 weeks before they hatch depending on what area she was from originally and where she is now she may be confused time and cycle wise, bit like jet lag in your undies

You are always a wealth of info WP I am glad I am not an elephant I am also glad it will be a few years yet before I try breeding my Girl's. Gives me more time to keep on reading on

 

[Wrightpython]

You are always a wealth of info WP I am glad I am not an elephant I am also glad it will be a few years yet before I try breeding my Girl's. Gives me more time to keep on reading on

cheers unfortunately that wealth gets me in trouble when people take what i say the wrong way , there is always more than one way to read posts and mine get read wrong way more often than not. I try to only listen to those people that have had reptiles for longer than licences have been available, if you didnt take from the bush originally then you dont know what your talking about in my book. Anyone can buy reptiles but to go and find it then bring into captivity is something different and considering i have travelled over most of Aus and PNG finding and photographing and in some cases capturing i feel i can be a bit snobbish. I may not have the best reptiles but i have caught all mine originally and bred to swap for species i have not captured. I have never bought the best of the best and so for the aps nut im a nobody with no idea but to those that truly know there reptiles also know true herpers at a glance.

 

[CrystalMoon]

cheers unfortunately that wealth gets me in trouble when people take what i say the wrong way , there is always more than one way to read posts and mine get read wrong way more often than not. I try to only listen to those people that have had reptiles for longer than licences have been available, if you didnt take from the bush originally then you dont know what your talking about in my book. Anyone can buy reptiles but to go and find it then bring into captivity is something different and considering i have travelled over most of Aus and PNG finding and photographing and in some cases capturing i feel i can be a bit snobbish. I may not have the best reptiles but i have caught all mine originally and bred to swap for species i have not captured. I have never bought the best of the best and so for the aps nut im a nobody with no idea but to those that truly know there reptiles also know true herpers at a glance.

Oh I always try to look at most posts as a learning curve, even if I think they maybe on the snarly side . I have probably perpetrated most of the "sins" on here lol I caught from the wild unlicenced simply cause I didnt know I had to have one lol(years ago) I fed live cause thats what I figured they ate in the wild etc etc..... I was really enjoying the links and topic of this thread I am learning a great deal from a lot of people on here I was also very lucky to have the ear of Ram Chandra many years ago, he was very unorthodox lol and a really funny fellow(was my best friends Grand Father)

 

[montay]

I wish you well with your python's recovery. I was not so fortunate with my bredli female after christmas who became dystotic. Unfortunately, she died of septic shock after her surgery. Quite a loss for us.

 

[Striker]

I'll put up a picture of her soon. She looks great. And now I get the fun of injecting her with antibiotics every 3 days for 4 weeks. It's hard enough changing her water without losing a bit of my own blood so I'm sure she'll enjoy me giving her injections.

She really does look awesome though. I'm really happy with the surgery and how quick she recovered.

 

[CrystalMoon]

Thanks for the update glad to know she is dong so well
Crystal