Coastal Carpet related questions

[Alimor]

I got a yearling coastal at the end of May and she hasn't shed since I brought her home. I don't know when she last shed (I forgot to ask at the time and keep forgetting to ring the breeder - will try to remember tomorrow). I just wondered how often they should be expected to shed. My other snake is a kingsnake and he sheds on a regular basis (about every 6 weeks at this age).

Also am I feeding her enough (is this why she hasn't shed yet), at the moment I feed her one small adult mouse per week? She takes it easily and always looks ready for more, but then so do I after chocolate and I am definately not under-nurished! :wink:

All feedback gratefully received.

Alimor

 

[Slateman]

Hi Alimor looks ok to me. it is not unusual not to shed for 4 month in road. If she is eating and act happy as healthy snake, all is sweet. She will shed soon.

 

[pythonss]

coastal q

hi alimor

i would be giving him /her more food. if she only eats mice i would be giving at leat three per feed.
we have a 16 month old coastal that feeds on rats, weaner size which would be slightly bigger than a adult mouse and has three at a time ever 9 days. she is shedding about every 8 to ten weeks. in the cooler months they might not shed as offen though..
cheers paul.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hi Alimor welcome to the site!

I agree with Paul that you are probably under feeding your coastal at this point and although it is probably doing no harm it is probably leading to a slower growth rate and hence no shedding.

What is the size of the coastal (length and weight) and that would help you work out whether you are feeding enough and also would determine whether your coastal is growing in an objective manner.

I have a Centralian Carpet (Bredli) and it is 7 months old and about 1m in length. He eats 4-5 adult mice at a time every 10 days or so and sheds about once a month to 6 weeks. Alternately I feed him a couple of 2 week old rats depending on what I have available at the time (I like to vary his diet a bit).

Another issue is whether your coastal is pooing a lot. If it is not doing #2's very often then you probably need to feed a bit more as he is utilizing all that you give and there is no excess.

There are a few opinions regarding feeding snakes and patterns that occur and my theory is that if they find 5 mice they will eat as many as they can in the wild as they do not know when their next meal will occur and that is my feeding pattern. But in saying that I keep a close eye on growth and weight patterns and will start to cut back on the feeds with larger rats/mice when he hits the year mark.

Cheers Hawkeye

 

[Slateman]

Looks like i have wrong opinion on that one. But my female diamond shed last time 27 of may and she is warming up now and had clowdy eyes 3 days ago. she will shed any day now. I was not feeding for 2 months til now. My impression was that this is quite normal. sorry if i adviced you wrong Alimor but i am not the most experienced here.

 

[pythonss]

coastal q

hi slatman..woulnd say you were wrong at all...the growth rate/shed rate for your diamond is good..diamonds do better with slower development and wintring. but a coastal is a bigger faster growing animal so may need more that a diamond in relation to food items.
cheers paul.
hell the first go at spelling gave the totaly wrong impresion.

 

[Hawkeye]

:lol:

Slatey I cannot claim any level of expert opinion here at all lol.

I think that the issue is that Alimor is in the UK and therefore they are in high summer vs winter here as your snakey is coming out of hibernation and my understanding is that they tend to shed pretty early after hibernation regardless of growth (maybe a new spring suit for randy snakes or something :lol: )

It certainly would be of help if we had some idea of the size of the snake in question too.

Cheers Hawkeye

PS: Is that a true fact in reality? Do most snakes have a fairly early shed after hibernation in peoples general experience?

 

[ad]

Maybe I'm under feeding my snakes, but I have a very experienced herp friend who is horrified at some over-feeding practices and instilled in me the pitfalls and dangers, the main point he makes is to make sure it passes before feeding it again.
My coastal is eating as much as yours Alimor (actually less at the moment) and from what I have been told this is in line with how much the animal would eat in the wild (depending on conditions), mine has only shed once in the last 5 months, though is in good condition. We are just coming out of our cold period so I do expect it to pick up
I do not want a big animal and I am in no hurry for these animals to breed quickly which I see is the only reason to over-feed or power feed as I have heard it called.
In comparison to Hawkeye, my 7 month old Bredli eat 1 fuzzy mouse every 7 days.
Hawkeye and Pythonss are much more experienced herps then me and I am not disputing anything they have said, I am sure they know safe limits of feeding and I would recommend their advice before mine, I'm just offering up another point of view.
I dont think you are starving the animal but you could safely feed him more is the bottom line!

 

[seth]

Feed her enough to make a slight buldge in her stomach area.Depending on her age and growth rate will determine how often she will shed.It should be soon though.

 

[almaron]

I'm a little curious as to what all this friend told you were the dangers of overfeeding, and what guidelines he gave you ad.

 

[pythonss]

coastal q

hi ad.
i know exactly where you are comming from in regards to over feeding.

i wouldnt call what our one is eating is over feeding though it would quit happly except more if it was offered and we are controling its intack. yes and it does pass the previous item before the next is given. it really has a lot to do with the indervidual snakes nature some eat more than others and living in the tropics where they have night temps of anywhere between 16 to 25 at this time of year gives there matablism a bit of a kick along compared to there clutch mates that are living in a southern state.

i to figured that alimor is in the u.k and they are at the hight of there summer at this time so you would be expecting it to be eatting the most at this time.

alot of comments made on power feeding to quicken the growth rate for breeding at a earlyer stage seems to be centred around the giving of growth suplyments in there food items. noyt really about just a good balanced diet. as with said wild animals dont have a steady supply of food so will eat as much as they can fit at a given opertunity.

the slight buldge in the tummy as a indercator ( rule of thumb ) does have merit but this is not somthing we adhere to totally. yeah young animals that you want to bring on slow is fine. but for some species especally older animals this may keep them alive and growing but never will it satisfy there hunger you try putting a slight buldge in a scrubbys tummy and see what he thinks of you..lol
just some thoughts..
cheers paul.

 

[Greebo]

Good advice from everyone, so I wont bother repeating any of it.
This is the reason I come to this site and this thread has raised my spirits.

 

[ad]

Hi Almaron,
Basically he said the animals get obese, they have so much food in them they havent properly devoured there last meal, sometimes their last 2 feeds. There systems arent meant to handle constant food, sure they will eat it. He said in all the years herping and rescues etc he has never seen a fat wild snake.
He related to how the animals lived in the wild and how they feed (along the lines Hawkeye was saying, and I have heard they will 'clean out' a rats nest of all babies) but then the animal will not feed for a long time after that feed.
I relate it to a dog or myself even - over eat without exercise leads to fat build up, heart problems etc etc.

Paul, thanks for the feedback and diplomacy! I am acting on hearsay and not on experience, all views are appreciated. I wasn't saying anyone was doing the wrong thing, your reply post acknowledged this and expanded and explained as well.

Ps. I nearly forgot -GTP juveniles will prolapse and can die from overfeeding.

 

[NoOne]

I think theres to much hype around "over feeding" i still see alot of people feeding 9-12 month old carpets 1 pinky mouse a week because they don't want to over feed them.
By the time a carpet is 9-12 months i would have it feeding on at least half grown mice every 5-7 days.
I think it's hard to over feed a young growing snake within reason.

Slatey it's normal for a snake to have a pre-cooling shed and a post-cooling shed, nearly all my adults to it around the same time every year.

 

[almaron]

You know, one thing I never liked the looks of is a fat snake. I've seen a lot of snakes, and pictures of snakes, I thought were way too fat. Not for me. On the other hand, I wonder about stunting growth from underfeeding. I think there is a link somewhere floating around here about the "silver spoon" effect. A study someone did about prey availability in early years having permanent effect on growth potential.

Now I'm not saying anyone is over or underfeeding their snakes. This is just something I always like to hear people discuss, because there seems to be so many opinions. I personally haven't landed on any one rule, so to speak. Basically I've just ended up doing pretty much what Paul said. I just try to study my snakes much as possible, and keep good records. You start to get a feel for when they are hungry, and when they start "hunting" in their cage. Just subtle behavioral changes. This seems to be the logical time, I think, to feed them.

I try to feed them as much as they readily will take at one sitting when I do feed them. I'm sure I could prod them into eating more (especially my olives), but I just leave it up to them. I do tend to give them slightly larger prey than what it seems most others give their snakes. I'm judging that by pictures in the gallery and the like. Not huge, but for example, I'd give them two 50 gram rats instead of four 25 gram mice.

So far this vague "system" seems to work pretty good for me. My snakes are not fat, but they are growing at a fairly reasonable rate, and I don't think they are really hungry much.

 

[Magpie]

I also use a "vague" system. I feed my snakes a certain amount, increasing it fairly regularly. Eg, stimmies were getting one pinkie a week, increased to 1 fuzzie after 4 feeds, 2 fuzzies after another 3 feeds, then a small hopper etc etc. About 3 weeks ago, I decided they were getting too fat so i did't feed them for two weeks then next feed was only 8g instead of the 12-16 they have been getting. In that 3 weeks, they have started to lean out again so will have 2 or 3 more small feeds then go back up again.
I personally would feed more than you are alimor and ad but you are probably feeding enough to not cause any health problems. IMO, you will see your snake start to get fat if you overfeed, and this is the time to cut down, when they are just starting to get overweight.

 

[wattso]

Alimor, you came to the right site freind!, Here you find all the free freindly and expert advice you will ever need about your Aussie python! This is probly one of the best sites that i have found online. I also have a coastal, mine is a 3 y.o. and has been having an odd shed lately, members have been very helpful indeed, Slateman whoowns this site even came to my house in his own time to help! Welcome to aps, happy herping.

 

[ad]

The 'silver spoon' thing would be very interesting, as would peoples views on the colouring (esp Jungles) on an underfed v overfed python.
I am going to up the feed for my Bredli to hoppers/small mice, my coastal I will keep on the 'slowfeed'.
On saying all this, I am overfeeding two maculosa I have, A full size mouse every 7 days for a 8 month old spotted because I do want them to breed asap. And I have a bearded dragon who looks so fat, i feel sorry for her.
I am with you Magpie, your system is pretty well my rule of thumb too.
I dont make a point of underfeeding Im just feeding to what I think is keeping the animal happy.

 

[lutzd]

Feeding

This thread may be getting a bit off track, and my problem is probably more so, as it related to 2 different species of snakes, but it is about feeding.

I'm getting a little concerned about my spotted and diamond pythons, who haven't eaten for a about two months now. They have not had their enclosure temperature reduced, although I guess because they can see a window, they know it's winter. The diamond is still quite active, although the spotted pythons are fairly quiet and spend a lot of time curled up under their water dish. Do you think I should worry? Any advice appreciated.

 

[NoOne]

Another thing to remember is some pythons are "fat" by nature. The first ones that comes to mind are olives, adult olives are a heavily built snake so are waters and to a lesser extent childrens and even large coastals, diamonds. Adult bredli are also a stocky snake. So some snakes may look a bit fat but it doesn't always mean they are over weight.