Croc hunt will endanger humans - Bob Irwin

[apprenticegnome]

With unrestrained hunting they were shot in their thousands every year. Yet 40 years on they are a problem again, in term of both numbers and large animals encroaching into populated areas. And at the same time, thousands of eggs have been harvested from nests each year to supply crocodile farms. If 50 large crocs per year sounds like a lot, that is because you have no concept of the absolute numbers present, the massive area over which they occur and their reproductive potential.

Why should removal of large crocs affect the gene pool? Dominant croc have “mating rights” for their stretch of water and so their genes are present in the offspring. The big males will kill or chase off any male that is smaller. When they are too old to fight effectively, one of the subordinates will take over but it will have to battle for the position. It doesn’t matter if it comes from that stretch of water and is a son or if comes from elsewhere and is unrelated. The stronger will win. The same thing happens when you shoot the dominant croc. The remaining crocs battle it out until one establishes dominance.


Evolution is not survival the strongest, it is survival of the “fittest”, which means the “best suited” to a given environment. What data leads you to believe there has been a weakening of the gene pool in kangaroos as a result of culling?

Blue

I'm in total agreeance. Unless you decimated the majority of the crocidile population you definately wouldn't be affecting the gene pool and the previous harvesting of crocs in Australia for skins has proven this. I'd like to know where the weakening of the gene pool in kangaroos is proven? It's hard to believe that if this was evident that the issuing of culling permits is still readilly available. I'd recommend a trip out in the country and I don't mean an hour or 2 west of Sydney or Canberra to see the numbers of roos that thrive out there despite culling. Controlled culling can be beneficial in financially supporting the policing of illegal and unregulated hunting.

 

[abnrmal91]

Crocodiles are still not even close to recorded population sizes before hunting nearly wiped them out so i would have to say i am against trophy hunting until we see an increase in population size, they are still no where near as numerous as they should be.

Its estimated that between 1945-1970 the total number of crocodiles killed was 330000 (140000 from NT & 190000 from QLD & WA). In 1993 Saltwater croc numbers for NT where calculated to be 59400 with a population increase of 6.5% p.a.

If you consider how many where culled & how quickly they where able to build their numbers up again it is really remarkable. During the 1945-1972 heavily vegetated freshwater swamps acted as safe havens for Saltwater crocs, once commercial hunting stopped their numbers started to increase again. As the core habit they previously inhabited hadn't changed, it allowed for the crocodiles to re-inhabit these areas once again. We continue to see this spread today.

 

[Bluetongue1]

At that rate of increase, current numbers would exceed 150,000 in the NT and they could be expected to increase by more than 9,000 this year alone. Still concerned of a cull of 50?

A medical treatment has affected this part of my memory so I am not sure if I have it right. Please correct me if you know otherwise. My understanding is that crocs were getting to sufficient size and numbers on a lot of stations that they were starting to account for significant stock losses. Although they are not supposed to, the station owners were shooting them and this became evident and aan issue. In order to get rid of them on a more permanent basis, they took to doing things like dropping a few sticks of jelly into the billabong or water hole in the river and blew the crap out of everything. I think a billabong was filled in with a font-end loader or possibly pumped dry. The idea of the hunting bounty was to make it worth the station owners while to maintain the environment for the crocs by paying for stock losses and some. What I am certain of is that the motivation was to provide an incentive to maintain the environment in which crocs currently live.

 

[NTNed]

Some more stats from NRETAS.
Just how many Crocs are captured in populated areas in the NT?
How many of these are actually relocated and not slaughtered anyway?

50 Crocs a year.:shock:..... oh yeah, that's gonna decimate em for sure............ I better get out there somewhere and see them in the wild within the next couple of million years or I'll miss out.:lol:

Have a look on a map and see how many of these captures in rivers equate to them being in Darwin Harbour per year. But hey, it's easy to be an expert when it's not in your back yard.

Crocodile Captures - NRETAS Internet Site

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thanks for that NTNed. And to think... I have been swimming in the Katherine River at night. Not any more!
Those in the Katherine River certainly are a long way inland. I was dubious about a fella telling me they regularly cleared the crocs out of Berry Springs so that tourists can swim. I can see I did him an injustice.
You can only imagine how many there are out in the gulf country.

 

[ghosts]

I don't understand why people are making a fuss over this the nt government pays professional shooters each year to shoot 500 crocs now they are letting hunters shoot 50 of the 500. What they should be doing is let the hunters shoot all 500 and get the royalties instead of paying for the service. It's funny where is the thread about the 500 crocs being shoot each year or collecting 50,000 croc eggs for farming? But as soon as the tv highlights 50 crocs being shoot by hunters everyone becomes a ecowarrior

 

[Waterrat]

Mate, I don't argue otherwise but could you please give a reference to the 500 crocs being shot each year on Government orders? What happens with the carcases?
I am also curious who are the professional shooters and what kind of permit they operate under. This is all new to me.

 

[pseudechis4740]

Touchy subject, much? As long as all involved are transparent and accountable I can't see the harm to croc populations. Immoral? Maybe. If you are ever unsure as to the why of anything add a $ value to it and you will have your answer. Sure to be a vote grabber in the top end for the political party that sells it.

 

[ghosts]

Mate, I don't argue otherwise but could you please give a reference to the 500 crocs being shot each year on Government orders? What happens with the carcases?
I am also curious who are the professional shooters and what kind of permit they operate under. This is all new to me.

It's not a government order (cull quote) but around 500 nuisance crocs are shoot or trapped each year which the government has to pay a professional trapper or shooter to do. As for the license, what they do with the bodies ect I'm not 100% sure as I can't find where I originally read it

 

[Waterrat]

It's not a government order (cull quote) but around 500 nuisance crocs are shoot or trapped each year which the government has to pay a professional trapper or shooter to do. As for the license, what they do with the bodies ect I'm not 100% sure as I can't find where I originally read it

Yah, I got that but I was after a reference to the facts, this sound more like a fifth hand info. I am genuinely interested in this. InQld all removal of nuisance crocs is done by QPWS personnel, not by contractors. Also the "quota to cull" doesn't seem right, how can anyone predict the number of nuisance crocs each year to set the quota, also the mention that the gov. is actually paying anyone to do the job. ???
Are you sure your information didn't come from another thread on APS posted by someone "assuming"?

 

[ghosts]

I said it's not a quota to cull and I did read it not on a forum, as soon as I find it I will post the link. But even if I read it wrong and it's not contractors the government is still paying someone to do the job. So why shouldn't they have someone pay them to do it instead

 

[mmafan555]

Evolution has always allowed the strongest to survive to full size and breed. To only go after Trophy animals, ie biggest, strongest and least susceptible to disease, my concern starts with weakening the gene pool. This can already be seen with regular kangaroo culls.

That is definitely a real concern (hunting caused "dwarfism" or whatever its called) but hunting "up to 50 crocs a year" out of such a huge population is unlikely to have any negative impact in that regard.

 

[meksy]

MY OPINION ITS SAD!!!!
no need for humans to go into the crocks area/home and kill them!! thats just not right dont stuff with nature my opinion they wer here first we built onto there homes therefor we made the mistake nd the wanna fix it by culling all the crocks? pfft pathetic in my eyes!!
save the crocks!!!!

 

[Waterrat]

MY OPINION ITS SAD!!!!
no need for humans to go into the crocks area/home and kill them!! thats just not right dont stuff with nature my opinion they wer here first we built onto there homes therefor we made the mistake nd the wanna fix it by culling all the crocks? pfft pathetic in my eyes!!
save the crocks!!!!

You have a rather strange view on this.
First of all, THEY don't want to fix anything by culling crocs. Shooting 50 crocs is not a "cull" to speak of and it wouldn't fix anything - the idea of this proposal is entirely different.

Secondly, the crocs that are being removed by capture/relocation or shooting are the ones that come too close to our homes, not the other way around.
Perhaps we should demolish all cities, bridges, buildings and anything that we put in where crocs used to roam and move to China.
Do some reality check.

 

[peterducks7889]

There is another thread: Another go at croc safari hunting dealing with this issue and SteveNT and I commented on removal of large, old crocs.

Taking 50 crocs / year is not going to put a dent into the population and what many people may not be aware of - croc hunting is happening in NT big way .... for socio-political reasons it just doesn't get reported.
What also concerns me is, where will the money go. That needs to be thought out and spelled out very clearly. To say "the indigenous communities will benefit" is just not good enough.
Bob has got his heart in the right place but we should also be listening to Graham Webb at al.

Why on earth should the indigenous communities get money im getting quite sick of this gimme giime gimme attitude we said sorry for something we did not do they already get benefits and god knows what else given to them for free think its time to go out and get a job like everyone else if the community gets money its not just for indigenous ppl its for the whole community thats just racist only giving to the indigenous community

 

[SteveNT]

The crocs are on aboriginal land so the money goes to the land owners. Indigenous Ranger groups (full time employment Mr. Dux) already remove problem crocs stalking the Communities. Relocation doesnt work so they are shot and the meat distributed to the Community.

Outside aboriginal land the crocs are trapped or harpooned by P&WS Rangers. They are then sent to croc farms.

Pastoralists regularly cull crocs that are eating their cattle, no questions asked. Just common sense really.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't want to get tangled up in politically correct / racist crap but my question is: WHO OWNS AUSTRALIAN NATIVE WILDLIFE?
I own my block of land, does it mean I can shoot the kookaburra in my tree?

 

[SteveNT]

No, but if they were being commercially harvested from your property you could reasonably expect to be paid.

 

[geckoboy2001]

His argument doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Yes if you remove a large male croc from an area, smaller crocs will move in to that section. However if there was a large croc in the area to start with there would have already been a risk of attack. The main reason people get attacked is due to the younger crocs having to move to new (previously croc free) areas, due to larger crocs evicting them. As a result people don't expect a croc to be in or around the water when they are attacked.

hello his only what like 7 or 8

 

[Darlyn]

if the community gets money its not just for indigenous ppl its for the whole community thats just racist only giving to the indigenous community

Mostly the whole community where the crocs are located are indigenous so what's the problem?