Diamond Python Temps/Click Clack quessie...

[Mayhem]

Just a quick question regarding temps for correct keeping of Diamond Python hatchies/juveniles.

I've got the rather ironic situation of finding that keeping my new Diamond Python is more of a mystery to me than keeping GTP's!

I have kept many other species before, including the close relative, Carpet Pythons, so I arnt a complete n00b, but I must admit that prior to my recent learning curve, I kind of put the DP+CP down as nothing but "different colour phazes of the same snake" in my head. I've since found out that Diamonds and Carpets are actually very different snakes with very different needs and requirments etc - they pretty much may as well be totally unrelated species!

I have now been doing alot of catching up on my homework of course, as would be expected - but the more I read, the more I realise that I was so, so wrong with my previous perceptions of their similarity and requirments. Things like the importance of lower temps, less regular feeding, more hight in the cage dimentions etc for Diamonds are all things that, while I do cater for them to some degree now, I think I could do better at addressing it in future set ups or even the current click clack environment.

Anyways, here's what I am doing, let me know what u think:

I live in Brisbane. I have heat mats under all my snakes, except the Diamond Python. She lives in a pretty standard size 40ishcm x 30ishcm x 20cm (height) click clack in my herp room at the moment, which maintains a constant air temperature range of between 32 and 26 degrees C.

I take her out as often as possible for 15mins of natural sunlight during the day, but otherwise, all heat is in ambient air temperature and not given by any direct source (eg a heat mat placed under part of the click clack like my other snakes)

The reason I am neglecting the heating for the Diamond is because I've been reading so much about how they are less tolerant to higher temps than other pythons (due to their sothern range) and that it can in fact be bad for them to be kept at the higher temps that may in fact be normal for species like my Bredili etc? I'm also seeing that alot of people down south, where its much colder than here, actually keep them outside, even during single digit temperature winters?

She is always very alert, very willing to feed at any opportunity and generally showing nothing but all good signs of health in every aspect.

Given the above information, would you say that what I am doing is correct/safe/acceptable? or should I be going about this a totally different way?

 

[JasonL]

If your herp room maintain a temp of 26 - 32 and as long as the snake was feeding and looked OK, there is no need to heat it. You should feed it as much as it can eat during warmer weather but.. have it exposed to cool periods where it refuses, dictate it appetite and growth rates by temperature, not by the amount of food offered and grow it slowly. Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[Jazza369]

iam in brisbane and i heat mine 2 hacthie diamonds it get to a max of 26 and as low as 16 in the moring in the room but in the tank it does not got below 20 and not high as 30 is this ok?

 

[JasonL]

I think the best part of keeping them unheated is that they may get periods of cool weather that they won't eat in, right now in Sydney, all those little diamonds out the back of my place are getting 10 degree nights and 20 degree days, they will be on the tops of those west facing outcrops trying their best to stay alive, and maybe it will get warm enough for long enough for them to manage to eat their coppertail skink buddy sitting under the next rock, or maybe it won't, come spring, the days warm up and the little ones will be eating well during the day, summer, they will be eating well day and night, but the larger animals with larger body masses don't heat up so easily, and stay mostly nocturnal, hunting mostly during the warmer nights for 5 months of the year, and if the girls have a clutch that will be greatly reduced, they bask in the early mornings but disappear by 10am to prevent over heating to keep their metabolisms slow in case the night temps in the following weeks arn't warm enough to grab a feed...
well anyway something like that, the correct heating for diamonds is really complex and can never be easily replicated in captivity, and will never be understood by a new keeper with no knowledge or experience in keeping snakes. If you plan on keeping diamonds for longer than 10 years, do some reserch into heating them, look up the av tempuratures in their home range, esp how many nights get over 20 degrees over summer, look at reserch as to where they go throughout the seasons, or even better, get out there yourself and find them. and I don't mean by cruising roads on warm nights, I mean by finding them sitting in trees ect during the day, work out how they live. Keep in mind though that you can't replicate how they live in the wild in a tub / enclosure and you need to keep them at slightly higher temps as a safety margin.

 

[SlothHead]

Jason has hit it on the head here.

First year hatchies i will generally maintain a summer temp/ light cycle through the winter, but certainly once they are a year old, that is it they go on a yearly cycle method.

Summer cycle is basically
Light 12hrs
basking Heat 10hrs no heat mat just a basking light

Winter
Light 10-8hr light
Basking 4 hrs with about 2 months without any heat at all.

This is quite simple and obviously not detailed to exactly what we do, but you get the gist.

We never give diamonds heat at night. Never use heat mats with them at all.

Obviously this method means that food intake especially over the winter period is greatly reduced to the point that the males will go without food for 6 months, and females similar.

Further more with breeding, we will only breed a female every second year as well.

 

[GTsteve]

Great thread.

I'd love, amongst other things, a diamond python or two but they seem to have some bad press when it comes to keeping them happy in QLD due to the higher temps and humidity.

Do any other Diamond keepers from Brisbane have anything else to add? So far I still feel like I may be out of my depth keeping one happy up here.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Norm]

I agree with Steve, interesting topic for me, particulary about what they do in the wild. I would love to come across one in the bush.

The mystery about keeping diamonds is one of the reasons they are my favourite.

 

[shaunyboy]

i give my diamond a basking spot of 95f.i also use uv light.i vary the basking time with the seasons.its spring over here so she gets a 4 hour bask plus 4 hours uvb every day,when summer comes i up the basking time to 8 hours plus 8 hours uv.in the winter she gets a 2 hour basking time.a few days in winter she does not get any basking time.my basking spot is always 95f no matter what season i'm trying to replicate.i treat my hatchlings as normal carpets for the first year.once they have reached a year i treat them as adult diamonds would be treated.i stop feeding them 1 month before the cooling cycle.this allows them to empty their gut before the cooling cycle begins.i cool them for 4 months.over the1st month i gradually drop the temperature.for the next 2 months i give them a 2 hour bask during daytime.night time temps at 55f.the 4 th month i gradually heat them back up.i give them 2 weeks at normal temps then i feed them.i hope this has been some help to you.if you look up papers written by shine & slip you will find some great information on diamonds in the wild.a diamond python is a true cold weather python and a remarkable snake.the best in the world imo.all the best with your new diamond.i'm sure you will find them facinating snakes to work with.
cheers shaun

 

[shaunyboy]

diamond temps

january feeding 4hr bask / 8hr uv
febuary feeding 4hr bask / 8hr uv
march feeding 4hr bask / 8hr uv
april last feed/clear gut 4hr bask / 6hr uv
may no feeding 2 & 4 bask / uv at same & cold ntl
june no feeding 2hr bask / uv & cold ntl.few days no bask/uv
july no feeding 2hr bask/uv & cold ntl.a week no bask/uv
august no feeding 2 & 4 hr bask / uv cold ntl
september intro.males for breeding 4hr bask / 6hr uv
october continue intro males 4hr bask / 8hr uv
november female ovulation / males feeding 4hr bask / 8hr uv possible heat mat 20c
december egg laying & feeding 4hr bask / 8hr uv
ntl = night time lows

a heat mat set at 20c ensures that they never get exposed to extreme temp drops.the above table was done by russell grant and published in keeping and breeding australian pythons,edited by mike swan.i wrote it as published.i had to re arrange the table to suit the seasons over here.i find this works great with diamonds.
cheers shaun

p.s. keeping and breeding austalian pythons,edited by mike swan is a great book to get you started.it has information on all your beautifull australian pythons,also pythons of the world volume 1 australia,by dave & tracey barker is another good book to get hold of.it went out of print in 1994 but there are second hand copys available from time to time.they can be expensive though.

 

[mojo73]

The said Russell Grant article:-

Mike Swan - Diamond Python Care

PDF download

 

[shaunyboy]

thats it mate

thats the one mate,it gives you enough to get you started safely on the diamond.

 

[shaunyboy]

cant say enough

i honestly cant say it enough times,reading the study papers by slip & shine gives you a wonderfull insight to diamonds in the wild.if you come across the stan chiras article on diamonds hibernation imo it should not be followed.diamonds brumate not hibernate.this is just my humble oppinion.but the thought of putting diamonds in stylafoam boxes then forcing them into some kind of hibernation for 3 months,is just so wrong and dangerous to your diamond.
cheers shaun